A Man of Principal and Not Interest

[Moe Hacken]

Glen Carner actively lobbied for Clean Money in Hawaii in 2007! He wants his POLITICIANS to be ETHICAL!

BahahahaHA!

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/WebLink8/0/doc/34445/Page1.aspx

[Moe Hacken]

Then he wrote a letter to the editor in 2009 to further champion campaign finance reform:

Let Big Island voters have public funding

Hawaii has a history of people who have access to lots of money taking advantage of those who don't have access to lots of money. Fair elections helps level the playing field.

Now we have the chance to allow Big Island candidates to spend less time raising money and more time listening to the people.

Given the economic situation, the responsible thing to do would be to enact Act 244 so that people start using the public funding program again. When taxpayers see that the public funding program is working, they will be more willing to donate $3 to the election fund again. Delaying the Fair Elections Act is fiscally irresponsible right now.

Glen Carner

Captain Cook, Hawaii


http://archives.starbulletin.com/content/20090311_Letters_to_the_editor

[Glen Carner]

I'm not here to get beat up.  Ill pass on this one.

[Matthew Chan]

This isn't a post I would have put up but an ELI Community member felt otherwise.  You aren't here to get "beat up"? I am not sure what you consider getting "beat up" but you had to know that it would be risky for you to come on ELI publicly.  For what it's worth, I have already said you are quite courageous (and maybe a tad crazy) for participating on ELI.

[Moe Hacken]

I'm not here to get beat up.  Ill pass on this one.

Beat up? Mr. Carner, I am being perfectly sincere when I tell you that I actually ADMIRE your activism for public funding.

I spent two years of my life organizing, collecting signatures, creating pro bono websites and even speaking in public (not easy for me) in hostile environments to try to get people to understand how our democracy is being ruined by the undue influence of "dirty money". It was very frustrating. People are more interested in "reality shows" than in the real horror show of "pay-for-play" politics.

After the Citizens United abomination from our highest court (and they must have REALLY high when they ruled this), the money floodgates are open and now they won't even want to tell us who's giving the money and how much. In this election year, have you seen the amount of money being spent by unknown parties to sling mud indiscriminately? It has to stop before we become a total corporate plutocracy, if we're not one already.

Why do you feel beat up? Don't you see the irony of your passionate statements about a "level-playing field" and the way your little legal henchmen are treating mom-and-pop outfits, and even real mom-and-pops whose kid put up a rights-managed image? Is that a level playing field for the intellectual property industry? I say your model is grossly asymmetrical.

Mr. Carner, I don't have any problem telling you your actions are unethical, and I find it VERY ironic that you want your POLITICIANS to be ethical! At least they have a medical excuse because of their profession.

As far as Matthew's and other people's view of your "courage", I respectfully disagree. What you're doing requires no courage, just amazing amounts of chutzpah.

[Mulligan]

Moe, I've yet to meet a copyright troll who understands irony.

Timothy B. McCormack, for example, thinks of himself as an independent filmmaker who, in his words on his law office site, tells us that his: "predisposition as a storyteller is to look for life’s universal connections and meanings in the human stories that might not otherwise be told."

This from the man who sends out settlement demand letters to extract huge amounts of money without giving a shite or even wanting to hear the "human stories" behind the "infringements" he states people have made while refusing to provide proof of registration or chain of custody.

Glen Carner apparently lacks this same understanding of irony, given how he responded to Extortion Victim No Longer's very human and what seems to me to be a quite genuine plea for understanding of her situation.

Here's what EVNL wrote:

Going back in time to when this all began, I contacted Vincent Tylors wife in an attempt to plead with Mr. Tylor but she answered the phone. I could barely speak as I made the call during one of my crying & panic episodes. I told her that I was so scared & what would my son do with me being in jail? I told her I had no idea that what I had done was wrong. I apologised with all my heart & told her about my financial situation. She was very kind & told me that no one goes to jail & advised me to call Glen Carter who is a very understanding man & to communicate with him.

I did call Glen Carter, again in tears, he informed me to discuss it with Brandon Sand. I pleaded with Brandon Sand...many times, begged him to give me a break, doing all I could to prove I couldn't pay & didn't have the funds. I called Glen Carner a second time & received the same former  response. After many calls & emails to Brandon Sand, I made one final phone call, sobbing as always, I told him how scared I was & what would happen to my son if I went to jail? He said pay the money & that will no longer be a concern. I finally asked him where the humanity was in all of this & his answer was, "the humanity in all this is to pay the money".

I write this summary of the experience I went through because even though in the end I was guilty for being ignorant of the law, I want others to know they are not alone & hopefully save them from shedding a few tears & fear filled nights awake. I am a strong person who is not scared of much & I certainly don't cry very often unless I am threatened by something like prison. The truth of the matter is that these photos found on freewallpaper sites and such are making artists, lawyers & picscout a lot of money. Whatever way/ways these images are getting out there, either by mistake or intentionally, substantial earnings are being generated by the result of people's fear, ignorance & innocent infringements. Which is worse?

Glen, the beating you're taking here on ELI is nothing compared to the treatment EVNL described above as coming from you on two different occasions. And you want honest and ethical politicians. The irony here couldn't be cut through with a logger's chainsaw.

You copyright trolls nazis can dish it out, but you sure start whining about being beaten up when the facts about what you're doing to others start coming out.

As for you having courage to be on ELI, no, I don't buy that one either.

Men with courage don't whine about being beaten up when their actions are laid out in front of them.

Men of courage respond specifically to accusations made against them, and their responses regarding their behavior are based on moral and ethical foundations.

Men who lack courage as well as moral and ethical foundations at their core whine, cry, and "pass" on providing specific replies to facts presented to them about what they've done (and continue to do) because they know their answers would indict them.

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

"You copyright trolls nazis can dish it out, but you sure start whining about being beaten up when the facts about what you're doing to others start coming out. "

@ Mulligan: Now YOU owe me a new keyboard!

[Extortion-Victim-No Longer]

When someone willingly commits a crime, they know the consequences could lead to imprisonment. It's a risk they are willing to take no matter how remorseful they may find themselves by the time they are in cuffs.
 
Anyone who truly has 'no clue' they cannot use that photo which is advertised as 'free' on their website would NOT risk criminal charges if they'd only knew the truth. This is the problem, people are not aware until they get a C&D letter. Publishing to the internet has become easier than ever... There should be a warning before something can be published to the internet. Copyright laws need tweaking & until they are, this will continue. Innocent people, especially the small time ma & pa's are committing crimes & theft without their knowledge. Large corporate entities are well seasoned in terms of taking measures to avoid legal battles, especially over a photograph.

I didn't think I was guilty when the photo I used was advertised as free.  I, as well as the rest of us letter recipients learnt the hard way to discover that ignorance is bliss for some.

ELI has created a safe haven for which these letter recipients can become well informed. In that process, the truth is told & on the other side of the fence, the bliss begins to fade upon exposure.

I did receive an email from Glen stating that he was sorry for the hardship I experienced. If that is true, change is inevitable & much needed regardless.

[SoylentGreen]

EVNL, ironically, there's a good chance that you were never guilty of anything.
I haven't seen any concrete proof that H.A.N. and/or Tylor had any legal standing to collect monies based on copyright infringement.
Nobody (except Tylor and Carner) know what's actually in Tylor's registrations, or if the registrations were done properly.
I should also add that many of Tylor's photos are offered in the public domain as "free".  That doesn't meet the definition of copyright protection by most yardsticks.

Mr Carner has said that "I think you guys have become so entrenched in fighting back that you never considered that there may not need to be one in the first place.", and "ELI will be there to shame them in the process".
I can't speak for Matt of course.  But, I think that Mr Carner has mistaken the primary mission of ELI with the negative results of copyright trolling.
That is the "fight", "non-payment" and the "shame" are a direct result of the following:

• faked evidence
• lack of legal standing
• illegal threats
• ruined reputations of trolls/trolling companies and incompetent lawyers

ELI's mission is to inform.  That's how I think of it.  The collateral damage to the trolls is the result of greed and warped moral compasses.

S.G.

[Peeved]

EVNL, ironically, there's a good chance that you were never guilty of anything.
I haven't seen any concrete proof that H.A.N. and/or Tylor had any legal standing to collect monies based on copyright infringement.
Nobody (except Tylor and Carner) know what's actually in Tylor's registrations, or if the registrations were done properly.

Mr Carner has said that "I think you guys have become so entrenched in fighting back that you never considered that there may not need to be one in the first place.", and "ELI will be there to shame them in the process".
I can't speak for Matt of course.  But, I think that Mr Carner has mistaken the primary mission of ELI with the negative results of copyright trolling.
That is the "fight", "non-payment" and the "shame" are a direct result of the following:

• faked evidence
• lack of legal standing
• illegal threats
• ruined reputations of trolls/trolling companies and incompetent lawyers

ELI's mission is to inform.  That's how I think of it.  The collateral damage to the trolls is the result of greed and warped moral compasses.

S.G.

Ya buddy....that's a big 10-4!

[Matthew Chan]

You are correct on the reporting and informing part. That is why ELI was started. To organize the informational and ranting chaos that I saw running rampant and the stock photo agencies routinely ignored. We are required reading now. Amazing how a few short years has changed so much.

One reason why running ELI is easy is that the stock photo industry just gives so much fodder to hang itself.  Witness the recent hypocritical and holier-than-thou videos by Jonathon Klein. Most of the ELI Community just had to laugh at his public statements.

People just keep submitting information to us. In the early days, it was more challenging to get people to give us information to share.  Now, most people who drop by ELI "get it" and email us stuff quite frequently.

People don't hesitate to post on the forums anonymously with their information. And of course, there is Google which puts so much information at our fingertips. And the more we post, the larger ELI gets.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, ELI now has a larger web presence and footprint than most collection lawyers and stock image agencies we report on. Even the with "Getty Images" searches, we are starting to make serious inroads there.

As someone else pointed out, ELI is a safe haven for many. And the few who wanted to attack the ELI safe haven stirred a huge hornet's nest.  That forces the entire ELI Defense Team to go on the offensive directly vs. simply reporting as we normally do.

I can't speak for Matt of course.  But, I think that Mr Carner has mistaken the primary mission of ELI with the negative results of copyright trolling.
That is the "fight", "non-payment" and the "shame" are a direct result of the following:

• faked evidence
• lack of legal standing
• illegal threats
• ruined reputations of trolls/trolling companies and incompetent lawyers

ELI's mission is to inform.  That's how I think of it.  The collateral damage to the trolls is the result of greed and warped moral compasses.

[lucia]

At the risk of being accused of being a FOG (Friend of Glen), I can see why he doesn't want to engage the topic Moe introduced. It's not about copyright, collections/extortion or anything else.

Anyway, on the topic itself: I don't see anything wrong with Glen writing a letter to the editor to support a particular political initiative in Hawaii.

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

It's really very simple why Glen Carner only chooses to engage in certain topics IMHO. He is only striving to make his newly renamed company Copyright Services International, Hawaiian Art Network, and his own name look good, all three have been taking a beating here on ELI and he is trying to save face and keep sinking ships afloat.. It's completely coming from a PR perspective (which I might ad is not working out to well...again my opinion).

At the risk of being accused of being a FOG (Friend of Glen), I can see why he doesn't want to engage the topic Moe introduced. It's not about copyright, collections/extortion or anything else.

Anyway, on the topic itself: I don't see anything wrong with Glen writing a letter to the editor to support a particular political initiative in Hawaii.

[lucia]

buddhapi
Sure. But still.  There is a point where someone doesn't need to address something.

I think Glen should answer your questions and suspect he is using the excuse about name calling as an evasion. And I also notice that he has skipped some key follow on questions I've posed. My theory is that he doesn't want to answer those in public -- possibly having certain information appear prematurely may not be favorable to his negotiations for settlement.  (If it goes to court, Aloha's attorneys will likely ask certain rather questions in discovery and he will not be able to skip the questions asked.)

But I can't fault him for not want to explain a perfectly reasonable letter to the editor he wrote endorsing a view on a particular political issue.  I do not have a low opinion of people who write letters to the editor on political issues, and I don't think he needs to defend that.  Moe posted that-- and so I'm giving my opinion on that issue.

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

@ Lucia, I completely understand your position and frankly I could care less about his political views, opinions or his letter tho the editor, nor do I expect him to address them here. I can see how Moe has tied the 2 together, but i'd prefer to keep on the topic of the extortion demand letters and now phone call that Copyright Services International send out/make..

In regards to name calling, I've been very well behaved in that respect, yes I labeled Photographer Vincent K. Tylor, Glen Carner, Hawaiian Art Network and Copyright Services International "copyright troll", but I look at it as more of a "title" than a name. If he addresses my questions, fine, if not that's also fine by me, it only hurts his credibility more, if thats even possible at this point.