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Author Topic: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?  (Read 7598 times)

Chris

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Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« on: September 16, 2014, 11:41:38 PM »
Hello! I am a newbie here and truly appreciate all the info I've found on this forum! I am posting this since I didn't find a similar situation to mine and my apologies if I missed an equal question posted before.

I received one of Getty's standard letter last month demanding $970.00 for the use of 1 image on a personal blog I used to have. This letter was addressed to my blog's domain name. I followed the many suggestions I found here, immediately deleted the post/image, in fact, I deleted the entire blog from the server since I wasn't really updating it,  searched for similar images using the same "keywords" of the image in question and sent Getty a registered letter asking for proof of Getty's right to manage the Image , proper copyright registration, explanation as to how Getty determined the valuation of the image , sales data for each size and use,etc. I also provided comparable images and their costs.

Also, I highlighted the fact that the image in question is "embeddable" , in contrary to many other Getty images. ( I didn't mention this on my response, but I believe that by being available for embedding, the image in question has now a lower value).

I didn't provide a phone number or email address as I prefer to keep paper records in this case.

Today I received an email from their Copyright Compliance Specialist sent to my personal email addressed to my full name, now detailing that the image was used on three portions of the site (this image was used on 1 blog post only) and a copy of their "price calculator", where they calculated the image for a corporate site with use in advertising, etc.... which was not the purpose of my blog at all.  My other questions were not responded, besides the usual " The requested documentation would be made apparent through discovery" statement. They also mentioned that the image is "part of the design element of a website"... but I imagine that an image used on a blog post is not a website design element.

So here are my questions:
  • Since the image is now available for embedding, shouldn't its current market value be much lower?
  • Should I send a Cease & Desist registered type letter asking not to be contacted via email, or not to contact me at all until they provide the info I requested?
  • I used their "price calculator" tool and came up with a much lower price for this image under the real conditions of my blog if I still had it live today. Should I send Getty a screenshot of my findings from their price calculator with an offer to settle?
  • Their first letter only mentioned 1 screen capture and now they are talking about a multiple use of the image... is this a common practice?

Sorry for the long post, but I am at lost of how to proceed and I would appreciate any suggestions!

MANY THANKS!!!!

Matthew Chan

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 12:10:19 AM »
Were you part of their free embedded image program that was offered earlier this year? Or was the embedding through another mechanism? It was clear as to the mechanism of the embedding.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

lucia

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 08:21:19 AM »
I think he's saying the image is available for embedding but he displayed from a copy on his own server. But he thinks if the image is available as an embedded image, it should be cheap or near valueless. I think that's not necessarily the case. In the meat world, people can give things away in a promotion, but those same things still retain a their original value.  So I don't know why Getty's making an image available as an "embed" would necessarily reduce the sale value of the image when used without the 'embed'.  It might be an empirical question-- possibly no one would pay a 'rights managed' price if that image was being used as an 'embed' somewhere-- but maybe some people who actually buy images would. Someone would have to look at the market data.

If I"m correct about what he means about 'embed', he's best advised to follow advise people use for any old Getty images image.  Figure out the actual sale prices, see if it's registered, look at how and where the user posted it and so on.

Chris

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 09:53:35 AM »
Thank you so much for the responses!

The image in question is available for embedding now but not when it was displayed on my blog. I was too naive to get this image from a "free image" site... lesson learned. They are asking for $907 but their price formula doesn't apply to my blog's type and use of the image. I just wonder that since the image is available for embed now, its value is reduced since not all Getty images are available for embed.

A major problem is that they contacted me on my personal email and I didn't provide them that info. Is it legal for them to approach me this way? How can I protect myself from their harassment strategies?



DavidVGoliath

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 12:18:45 PM »
The image in question is available for embedding now but not when it was displayed on my blog. I was too naive to get this image from a "free image" site... lesson learned. They are asking for $907 but their price formula doesn't apply to my blog's type and use of the image. I just wonder that since the image is available for embed now, its value is reduced since not all Getty images are available for embed.

As a former contributor to Getty, let me preface that their embed programme was one of a handful of reasons I terminated my contract with them.

Now that's out the way, their embed feature is essentially providing images under license without the end user paying a license fee; the terms of use are incredibly narrow.

Getty believes those limited terms don't and won't cannibalise their core business, because if you want to use the image outwith the embed frame - whether that be for editorial, commercial or advertising use, then you'd have to pay for a relevant license.

From this standpoint, the image has not been devalued at all, as the value of a given license is determined by many factors relating to the nature and scope of use, regardless of the subject matter.

A major problem is that they contacted me on my personal email and I didn't provide them that info. Is it legal for them to approach me this way? How can I protect myself from their harassment strategies?

If your personal email appeared to be connected to your blog in any manner whatsoever - including mention on a different website then it's fair game, as they'd be acting "on information and belief" If you're curious as to how they found it, you should perhaps try a Google search for your email address to see where it's referenced.

lucia

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 12:35:59 PM »
A major problem is that they contacted me on my personal email and I didn't provide them that info. Is it legal for them to approach me this way? How can I protect myself from their harassment strategies?
It's probably legal for them to send you email. But I'm not a lawyer... so... don't know. Save whatever they send you so you'll have it should you learn it's not legal at some later point.

If they have a valid claim, it's difficult to protect yourself from their attempts to contact you to try to negotiate a settlement. It is legal to pursue a case. The main thing you can do is hire an attorney and have your attorney contact them. In that case, they have to contact your attorney, they can't contact you.  This often reduces the number of contacts.

If they have no valid claim and you are 100% sure of it, you can file a suit the way Joel Rothman did. But that option would not be in your best interest if they do have a valid claim as you would then lose and have paid all the court costs yourself. In contrast, one of the reasons they don't file small claims is that even if they win they might not be awarded attorney's fees and that makes the case financially unwise: They spend more on attorneys than they are awarded in damages.

One of the things you need to do before responding further is be clear headed and consider their claims. Above whether you know it or not, you seem to be sayings that touch on two different issues:

  • Whether  your use is an infringement at all vs.
  • Assuming it is an infringement, what's the proper level of damages.

These are different issues and it's best to keep these separate. Because if your use is not infringement at all, the proper level of damages is $0. (This is not to say you couldn't get sued. If you were you would have to convince a judge your use is non-infringing. )  On the other hand, if your use was infringing, you then might need to establish the proper level of damages.

For example, you say this
Quote
They also mentioned that the image is "part of the design element of a website"... but I imagine that an image used on a blog post is not a website design element.
If this was 'in a blog post', that might affect the correct price (which seems to be what you are focusing on.) But it might affect your use was infringing at all. The "design element" issue might matter to both.

First:  "blog post" isn't necessarily sufficient to prove it's not a "design element".  Look at how images are used at The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/09/how-gangs-took-over-prisons/379330/
Some bloggers have read "advice" suggesting they use sexy images to decorate their blog posts. The people giving the advise won't use that verb- but that's pretty much the advice being given.  I would categorize the use in "The Atlantic" article above to be "decorative". Notice  the post (or news article) doesn't comment on the image itself.  The top image isn't advancing the argument that gangs have taken over prisons, or show how they've done so and so on. It's sort of topical, but it's mostly  used to "sex up" or "decorate" the blog hoping to catch eyeballs or something.

I would suggest using images that way can be very dangerous. It should only be done if you are going to go to the trouble to take all your own images or license the ones you use. In the latter case: keep records.

If you used it that way and get sued by a copyright holder,  a judge might see that use as "a design element" and would do so even if you said "it's just a blog".  In that case, you would be making one of the precise uses these images are sold for. It will be very difficult to argue that your sort of use doesn't affect the marketability of photo licenses because if that sort of use is permitted without licensing, the copyright holders really can't make any money by licensing copies. Basically, everyone can just use images for any old reason. 

On the other hand, if you were discussing a topic (and actually discuss the content of that specific photo is some obvious way,) it's rather clear that image was at least arguably "content" not "design element".  If it's content, it might turn out you have a good case that your use was not infringing at all-- that it falls under fair use.  Or --depending on the sort of content-- it might not be 'fair use'.    But to judge whether yours is a case where it's 'content' and falls under 'fair use', someone would need more details about your use.  A four factor tests exist, and you'll need to apply it to see whether your use is there. Also, in the case of fair use: if it's at all close, you might want to discuss that with an attorney to see how strong your case is.   

If your use is not "fair use", the "design element"  may matter to pricing. I'm not sufficiently familiar with Getty Images price structure to know how much they would charge someone like "The Atlantic" above for using a photo in the way they use it. Possibly a lot-- possibly a little. I really don't know.  But just saying "blog post" doesn't itself tell us much because different types of blogs exist. The New York Times has blogs. Grannies have hobby blogs. Judges are likely to view things differently.


« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 12:57:41 PM by lucia »

stinger

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 03:41:54 PM »
In any event, I would not correspond with them via email.  Just because they have your personal email, does not mean they know if you check it or not.  I does not mean that they have any idea if you have spam filters or other blockers that might prevent their email from getting to you.

Once you respond to their email, they know that it is a valid way to communicate with you and they can turn up the pressure.  Make them work harder and send registered mail.

Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 04:12:11 PM »
I was too naive to get this image from a "free image" site... lesson learned.

Lesson #2: NOTHING is FREE...beware of free image sites, as you have no clue where those "free" images are coming from.. ( In most cases)
Most questions have already been addressed in the forums, get yourself educated before making decisions.

Any advice is strictly that, and anything I may state is based on my opinions, and observations.
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Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 11:45:16 AM »
I agree with Stinger. Wait for them to contact you like a normal business and not some Nigerian phishing scam.

Figure out what it would cost you if you wanted to license the image for your actual use. If you are comfortable with paying that and they send you a letter, offer that amount. Meanwhile, I'd see if any other stock companies offer the image.

And, of course, in the future when you DO license stock photography, purchase from a company that doesn't threaten potential customers. iStock photo is owned by Getty. I have been migrating clients to use Pond5.com for their micro-stock need.
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Letter on image now available for embedding and unsolicited email?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2014, 04:01:15 PM »
The embed issue may be an argument as to its value but it does not effect whether you infringed. Furthermore, the embed issue does not provide free images.  Here's a link to my blog post on the subject if you are interested http://www.courtroomstrategy.com/2014/03/beware-of-getty-bearing-gifs-no-typo-its-a-pun/
Finally, there is nothing illegal about them contacting you by email as long as they didn't have to hack you or steal your identity to find your email address.

 

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