settlement demand letter from Getty Image. What to do?

[Oscar Michelen]

Dear Jowik:

Many folks have suggested this theory that the digital image companies have "Seeded" their images into catalogs for the express purpose of having them be located by PicScout later on. While I guess its plausible, I personally don't think its likely.

[Jowik]

In the wake of Earl Jones, Conrad Black, BP, and those responsible for the sub-prime fiasco, I would believe that it is very likely, the reason why I think it is likely, as I stated earlier, is because they are specifically targeting the unsuspecting end user.  Greed has a way with people.  The difficulty here would be proving it in court, and they know that it's next to impossible, so it's a win-win for them.

[Oscar Michelen]

True indeed

[Tsyle]

Hi everyone... so... today I received an email from a website client back in 2006 saying exactly what everyone else here have already read.

Getty Images wants 3k for 5 images on the website. I have read that Getty does not copyright there images but is there a way for me to really check this? I have been referred to the copyright website but how would you search for an image?

I have read that most people choose to ignore these letters from Getty and others have resorted to using OM for help.

I really don't know what to do. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[SoylentGreen]

Hi Tsyle,

Sorry to hear that Getty's giving you some trouble...

I'm assuming that you're in the United States.

The United States Copyright Records Website is here:
http://www.copyright.gov/

To perform a search on the site, click on the red "Search Records" button to the upper right.
Now, under "Online Records", click on the text that says "Search the Catalog".
Next, you'll see text that says, "Search for" and a box wherein you can type in what to search for.
Type in "Getty Images" in the box, and click the "Begin Search" button.

At this time, you'll see only six entries.  Not much registered by Getty thus far.  That's bad for Getty.

You can check Masterfile for fun, too.  Much more is registered; however note how many collections are registered in bulk.  That's not so good for them.

Note that when an image or collection of images is/are registered; the registration numbers are 12 characters long. Usually it's 2 letters followed by 10 digits, or 3 letters followed by 9 digits; add zeroes before the number, for example:
VAu-598-764 is typed VAU000598764,
SR-320-918 is typed SR0000320918

If you happen to be in Canada, visit the Canadian Intellectual Property office online:

http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/home

Click on the "Copyrights Database" button to the left.
Now, under the "Quick Search" section, type in "Getty Images".
Next, click the "Search" button.

You'll note that nothing comes up for Getty Images at this time.
Masterfile has a few compilations listed there, however.

I'm not a lawyer.  But, (in my opinion), if one of these stock image companies is coming after you, and the images in question aren't registered in your country of residence, that puts them in a very weak position legally (in my opinion).  In addition, the registration must be done properly by the company in question.  Mr Michelen might choose to comment here if I'm mistaken.

I hope that this is helpful.  I'm sure that others were wondering about this too.

Best Regards,

S.

[Tsyle]

Thank you SoylentGreen for your quick reply. I am in the United States and ran the searches. None of those images sound like the images that were on my website. I also looked up the actual images that Getty have registered:

Here's a list just in case any body is curious:

Copyright #2
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=creative&assetType=image&p=6442-001216

Copyright #3
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=creative&assetType=image&p=6442-001232

Copyright #4
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=creative&assetType=image&p=051106_Biking%20_075

Copyright #6
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=creative&assetType=image&p=200022106-001

I was not able to figure out what images were copyrighted for #1 and #2.

[Oscar Michelen]

Getty rarely registers their images which is why they rarely sue (since without registration at the time of infringement they cannot get legal fees). Generally, only the entity that has registered the copyright can bring a lawsuit over an infringement.  If Getty wanted to sue they would first have to register the images.  As to how to proceed, that really is up to you but there are numerous posts and videos on this site to give you some frame work for making the decision.  Good Luck!

[choreograph]

One of my clients got one of these Getty Extortion Letters today. It was for an image I had purchased a license for from iStockPhoto (another Getty holding) a year ago for use in a montage inside a low-res web header in an HTML Email. They were demanding $1250 for this very common image. Just one small problem... the Getty Image they were accusing my client of stealing was not even the same image or image number they were accusing them to ripping off!

Needless to say, as mad as my client was at me over this issue, it may very well cost me a client that has been spending tens of thousands of dollars a year with me to design all their materials. If that happens, I guess I have the basis for a "LEGITIMATE" lawsuit against Getty and I can show REAL DAMAGES!!! This also cost me 6 hours today trying to dig up proof that I had a license for the image - who is going to pay me for all this time whenever they get their hands on a postage stamp! All this paperwork could put any designer out of business - even if they never used Getty or their images for anything!

I am also a photographer and I sell my images to clients that think they have value, but I have never personally agreed with the fact that any photograph constitutes intellectual property in any manner. Of course, my "feelings" are irrelevant - the law however convoluted, is the law (until they change it when it is suits them), but any child can snap a photo of anything and call it "art" or "priceless". Ultimately, it is virtually impossible for any photographer to PROVE that he even took a photo - simply cannot be done. And it is not like an oil painting or even an illustration that usually has only one buyer - it is a "technology" - especially since Digital Cameras are in every "phone"! I am all for Photographers getting paid for their efforts (that is why I have ALWAYS paid for stock photos I did not take myself), however, in the case of companies like Getty, they are just vultures that use Photographers and their client base for their own financial gain. Why, if they pay a photographer maybe 5 bucks for an image which they in turn try to sell usage rights on the Internet for maybe 20 bucks suddenly worth $1250 in damages? I wonder how much of this collected money is actually being shared back with the photographers in question? That would be a nice investigation for Fox News!

Waiting to respond to all these letters is another ploy in itself - these companies need to be drug into court with a real class action suit and get their clocks cleaned. Innocent people should not have to spend all their time and money to defend themselves against these predators. Why aren't the other stock photo suppliers not up in arms? This can ultimately kill the design industry completely in the U.S. and the only people left able to use photos safely on the Internet will be those countries that don't uphold such laws. A simple Cease and Desist is enough of a threat, until someone is PROVEN to actually be breaching the law on purpose or stealing and reselling images for their own gain.

[Mouse 2010]

This is just beginning for me. I have been in business for 12 years and am a web site designer and host. One of my clients that has been with me now for 2 year got a "Getty Image" letter yesterday. I have been very ill but have been through this before, but years ago and so did some research and found your site. They are demanding $600 from my client for 2 small candles in the top banner of her site. I spent hours going through the net and stock photo sites and could not find the image no matter what search words I used. My client was panicked and I was worried about that panic affecting my health and recovery so I started digging. I also know that Getty Images has, over the years, bought out alot of its competition so they might have fanned out and become more pesty.

Not so much now because of the current economy but a couple of years ago when I was very busy, I successfully worked for a long time ( and still do sometimes now) with a group of Indian programmers that would take over some of my projects acting as temp help. The site in question was put together by one of my Indian affliates and I put in some of the images from my library but she put in the candles cited in the Getty Images letter. My Indian affiliate would take my site and slice it then give me back the template and I would populate it as I got the info from the client, which happened in this case. This site has been up for 2 years so I wonder what took them so long to try to extort money. I told my client that it was a con and not to answer the letter but she is continuing to bug me and that is really bad for my recovery at this time. I also contacted India and as it turned out, this lovely woman that I worked with on the template for my clients site is no longer employed with my Indian group. So, that basically leaves nobody to harrass but my client and she is totally innocent, knows nothing about my work arrangement and there is really nobody that is holding this ball but her after 2 years of having this site that produced and still does produce clients for her, having nothing to do with the candles which are only a decorative touch on her site.

Please tell me how to proceed. When I did this search, what I was hoping to find was that this Getty Image demand was akin to a Nigerian Scam but apparently I was wrong; it's even more toxic. Can we just ignore it? If we do not answer, this letter was not sent certified, is there any way to prove that it was received?  What do I do now?

Thanks in Advance;
M

[Oscar Michelen]

I would not ignore it as their demand letters will continue to pile up and they will then send it to NCS Recovery "a collection agency." (though they can't put you into actual collection) Our letter program responds to their letter and they can no longer contact you directly. If you are interested you can reach me at xxx

[mellow6]

Dear OM

I am based in UK and got a settlement demand letter for almost £2K for 2 images for my business website.  I never received a cease and desist letter either.     I have read that getty have been lying about sending c+d letters and are arguing that they did in fact send them when they didn't.

I am a sole trader and business has been really bad so to contemplate paying this to getty images is quite painful. I am even considering closing down my business because of the stress of this horrible situation.    

I never knew anything about website design and all the technicalities involved so I relied on the expertise of my webdesigner to deal with the situation. I've read that once payment is made to getty there is nothing to stop them asking for more money for other images even if they are no longer on the website. As soon as I received the letter I asked the webdesigner friend to do the needful and remove the images. The entire website was removed shortly.

Do you have some sort of guidance you can give me without the need to go to an IP lawyer who will charge about £200 per hour and in the end just say pay it and be done with it.  I have read alot of posts and some friends are also telling me not to give in to the scam. What should I do?  I have been told not to do anything until I receive a summons for that would indicate if getty were serious. If I contact some say I would just be drawing their attention to me. I have only heard of one case in UK being taken to court by gy over £1,900  but it was not in the County court but in the High Court. The defendant agreed to settle out of court and the costs agreed to be paid as part of the settlement were in the region of £20K. Do getty only go for big companies where they think they will actually have a chance of getting the money or is anyone aware of any court case in UK about this? Alot of people are talking about class action class action but no one is actually doing anything about it! Can someone take the reins and compile some sort of a list of people both in UK and in USA to start this class action?

If the business is closed down what do getty do?  Do they carry on searching for the owner of the business?

How long after the first letter is the second letter usually sent out?

Jokes aside, if the debt collectors come round what should we say?

Has anyone got any of their own stories to tell from start to finish which may throw some light on how getty deal with the situation?

I feel like I am being bullied when I innocently had the images on my website.  In UK a Letter Before Action must always be served before action is taken. I do not believe that a settlement demand letter is a letter before action because it is not asking us to stop using the images (which, by the way I did not even know were not allowed to be used).

Are there any people based in UK who have been on the receiving end of these getty letters? Please let us know what happened and over what period as this would help us deal with the situation. It's fear of the unknown that is so frustrating.

Has anyone actually been taken to court by getty in UK? Has anyone been asked not to discuss their case by getty if they have settled with them? I have not seen anyone writing about having been taken to court? why?

OM please can you also comment here.

Thanks

[Oscar Michelen]

see my response to your post at the other topics

[choreograph]

I have been in the Design Business for over 22 years and doing web design for about 15 years.

Since my first client received one of these extortion letters, I have refused to take on any more web-related work as a result (already turned down 3 new website builds this month and warned the potential clients about this latest scam). Until last month, I have been spending several thousand dollars per year on stock photo license agreements - that will be ZERO in the future. I have NEVER used GETTY but once many years ago for a single image, but they keep harassing one of my clients and we have even proven to them that what they are claiming is a Getty Image is absolutely (and obviously) not even one of their images. So apparently they are threatening lawsuits against anyone you even has an image displayed that is even similar-looking to one they offer - even you you took the photo yourself. If I have to shut down the business due to the unwillingness of the Stock Photo Industry to police itself - so be it. I never thought that my clients might be put in a position of having to sue me when I did everything right and legal. I simply don't have the desire to and health to fight these crooks. This practice is nothing but a job and economy "killer" - the only winner is Getty, until they drain the trough.

I have bundled up all my research on this and forwarded it to one of my contacts at Fox News in hopes that they will look into the matter further and expose this practice. Once enough of these letters go out and the word gets around NOBODY will be putting ANY images on the Internet. Even if you can prove you have a license or took the photo yourself - I refuse to spend what little spare time I have proving to Getty that I did not breach their claims.

I have NEVER used a stock image for any of my clients that I did not purchase rights to, but if all my clients are going to start getting these threat letters, I will have to spend ALL MY TIME just looking  up proof of purchase. Between Getty and the Government, the paperwork could put ANY design firm out of business. Even if everything is done correctly (as I did), it still will not stop Getty from threatening lawsuits to EVERY person that has any photos displayed on their website (even if the web site owner took them themselves apparently).

I can only imagine what it is going to be like when couple hundred of my web site clients receive these threat letters! They are all going to look to me and either I have to show proof of every single image Getty decides to challenge or rish a lawsuit from all my clients independently.

Responding to these letters is a waste of time - we just did that last week and the Getty idiots came right back with a response that we were using one of their images - we are not and never have! We even sent them photographic proof the the image is different - they are still pursuing my client.

Until these practices are exposed on nationwide television, this will continue. Once it is exposed, the law will need to be revised otherwise NOBODY will ever put ANY photo on a website again and EVERYBODY loses in the end! What a thing to be pulling in this spiraling economy... maybe that is part of their plan to trash another industry?

[Oscar Michelen]

This has only gotten a modicum of press.  The LA Times and the Seattle Times did pieces on it, but thats about it

[amgrassi79]

a few questions regarding this thread:

-if getty didn't register the picture with the us copyright office, how can they enforce copyrights?

-when i search for the picture title with the us copyright office, i can't find it. would they possibly have registered the entire collection instead?

-when i took the picture from someone else's site, how do i know who in the world to ask permissions from if they don't credit who is reserving all their rights on the page?

i simply want to make sure that i'm searching correctly on the us copyright page. i've searched for "getty", "and" is clicked, "Masseuse pouring hot oil on woman's back, close up" with all of these clicked and search for keyword anywhere clicked.

it says it couldn't find anything. would they have registered the title? i found a registration for 5 images under the collection which is "stone", but i couldn't see what those images were, if they were mine or not.

all in all, i suppose it doesn't matter. i took it from a website where i had no idea where they got it from, and apparently i'm a criminal for that and should have known to know to look up if copyrights apply. i guess it just tells me if they sue me over 1 picture (which doesn't seem likely according to this forum), they at least couldn't get legal fees too.

thanks, all.