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Author Topic: Latest on Getty Single Image Lawsuits?  (Read 4735 times)

Newbie Fan

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Latest on Getty Single Image Lawsuits?
« on: April 30, 2014, 10:58:21 AM »
Thank you for all the great information! I posted this earlier in another section but no response so moved it here. The single image lawsuits I think are the most troubling development and was hoping to get some answers or thoughts.

I was wondering if any answers were filed in response to the complaints yet? If so can someone with access please post them? What is the latest going on with these filed cases?

Does anyone know how many demand letters GI sends to small businesses as opposed to non profits or blogs per year?

I was wondering why Getty is starting primarily with the 11th circuit to file suits?

I thought it interesting that Getty did not seem to even know that Oscar was representing their target when they filed suit. It is also troubling they sent no letters other than the one initial letter 2 years prior to filing the suit. What do you all make of that?

Also do you think now they will purposely go after Oscar's clients or is it still a good idea to retain him if one has received GI letters?

This turn of events is very disturbing as it seems to portend that small businesses that are incorporated with one image "infringement" will be targeted for lawsuits. For one because Getty knows they can't represent themselves and would have to spend money on an attorney. Secondly, it seems that most attorneys would advise a "reasonable settlement" as opposed to fighting in court over one image and I recall Oscar commenting briefly that these cases would not be well received in Federal Courts  if the defendant makes a fair offer to Getty. I surmise the "fair offer" would be much higher than the initial demand or lowest demand. So if this is going to be their trend shouldn't most incorporated businesses settle with them asap after receiving a letter (if they don't have an iron clad defense)? 

Even if the biz was an innocent infringer (for eg didn't realize it was copyrighted and took it down after receiving the first letter) but regardless of the reason had their unpaid image on a commercial webpage it seems like a lawsuit over a single image is a win win for Getty as certainly the majority will settle. I am hoping that isn't the case and it's still just a scare tactic and they won't now be systematically filing suit on every small business that received a letter. Thoughts?

Jerry Witt (mcfilms)

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Re: Latest on Getty Single Image Lawsuits?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 12:02:04 PM »
I thought it interesting that Getty did not seem to even know that Oscar was representing their target when they filed suit. It is also troubling they sent no letters other than the one initial letter 2 years prior to filing the suit. What do you all make of that?

Can you amplify why you believe this to be the case? I have to admit that I have not been following this very closely. I'm sure that Oscar is unable to comment specifically about this right now due to attorney/client privilege. But what did they do that made it seem like they didn't know who was representing their target.

Also do you think now they will purposely go after Oscar's clients or is it still a good idea to retain him if one has received GI letters?
This probably depends on the outcome.

This turn of events is very disturbing as it seems to portend that small businesses that are incorporated with one image "infringement" will be targeted for lawsuits. For one because Getty knows they can't represent themselves and would have to spend money on an attorney. Secondly, it seems that most attorneys would advise a "reasonable settlement" as opposed to fighting in court over one image and I recall Oscar commenting briefly that these cases would not be well received in Federal Courts  if the defendant makes a fair offer to Getty. I surmise the "fair offer" would be much higher than the initial demand or lowest demand. So if this is going to be their trend shouldn't most incorporated businesses settle with them asap after receiving a letter (if they don't have an iron clad defense)? 

Even if the biz was an innocent infringer (for eg didn't realize it was copyrighted and took it down after receiving the first letter) but regardless of the reason had their unpaid image on a commercial webpage it seems like a lawsuit over a single image is a win win for Getty as certainly the majority will settle. I am hoping that isn't the case and it's still just a scare tactic and they won't now be systematically filing suit on every small business that received a letter. Thoughts?

I do wish this site had a way to identify and contact the letter recipients. Because I would certainly contribute to a legal fund as I'm sure others on here would. If any letter recipients are reading this and intend to fight Getty, either by hiring an attorney or representing themselves, I wish they would PM me here.

Clearly Getty reads this board and got tied of everyone advising that Getty never brings a suit against a single image infringement. They decided to fix that. However, this course of action could fail spectacularly if one of their targets was properly prepared.
Although I may be a super-genius, I am not a lawyer. So take my scribblings for what they are worth and get a real lawyer for real legal advice. But if you want media and design advice, please visit Motion City at http://motioncity.com.

Oscar Michelen

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Re: Latest on Getty Single Image Lawsuits?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 09:31:05 PM »
Jerry - I can't comment directly but a pacer search would reveal that the matters went away amicably rather quickly. I can also say that I think they filed complaints against businesses we had represented.   

Greg Troy (KeepFighting)

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Re: Latest on Getty Single Image Lawsuits?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 10:37:39 PM »
Thanks for the update on this Oscar.
Every situation is unique, any advice or opinions I offer are given for your consideration only. You must decide what is best for you and your particular situation. I am not a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.

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Re: Latest on Getty Single Image Lawsuits?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 02:22:03 AM »
Thank you for responding Oscar. I understand you can't comment on the particulars. Will Pacer reveal the amount(s) settled for? That is the real issue and the one I was getting at in this thread.

What does it mean the lawsuits "went away amicably" in terms of dollars?? Also how much Oscar would charge to defend these suits - I can't imagine his fees along with the dollar amount of the settlement is any less than the original demand they could have paid prior to being sued?

What have we learned from these lawsuits?

What is a good strategy for small incorporated businesses that receive a demand letter for a single image in light of these suits/settlements?

1. If the amounts settled for combined with attorneys fees are higher than the original amount Getty demanded should the small incorporated businesses with a single image alleged infringement settle after receiving the first or lowest demand letter?

2. Is it still advisable for a small incorporated business to still hire Oscar for the letter program?
Not just because it looks they may intentionally be targeting Oscar's clients but also because I don't quite understand what the program would do now for a small incorporated business.

(Admittedly I don't know what that program did or will encompass - maybe Oscar will try to settle for less than the original demand in his letter program? Or is there just a letter sent to Getty asking for proof of the claims? I ask for clarification because it seems as though the latter  happened per one of the defendants and then his small incorporated business was sued out of the blue with no negotiations with Oscar)

3. Will small incorporated businesses now be targeted for lawsuits as a matter of rote if they don't settle/pay up prior to getting sued?

Is this the new Getty scam? Filing lawsuits against incorporated businesses with one single image alleged infringement because they know an incorporated business must hire an attorney to even file an answer?? A single image seems to be a logical pain point for many small businesses because from what I read on here the average claim for a single image has been lawsuit has been $2500.

Whereas a small business might pay to retain counsel over two or three images ie an $8 - 10 k or more demand, a single image demand of $2500 may not seem worth fighting over because it's a lose lose for the small business that MUST hire an attorney to file an answer that will in most likelihood charge at least that in a retainer and $2500 is maybe an amount they can muster up but no more and still stay in business.

I think a typical scenario in what looks like a new scheme could be an incorporated business receives a $800 demand in the first letter and whether they don't pay because they ignored them, or answered them and asked for proof of the claim will now be sued for $2500 because now Getty has court costs and attorney fees to recoup and/or more so because they know the corporation or LLC is over a barrel in that they have to hire an attorney to answer them and that doesn't make economic sense for that dollar amount.

If Getty is making even making a penny over what they asked for initially in this settlement (which it sounds like they are making far more in this new scheme - I think Matthew said they had about $1000 invested) why wouldn't they sue most single small incorporated businesses that don't pay up prior to the end of the statute of limitations?


« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 02:29:30 AM by Newbie Fan »

Matthew Chan

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Re: Latest on Getty Single Image Lawsuits?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 04:04:47 PM »
NewbieFan (NF),

You probably won't like some of the answers I will give as they lack some explanation and background info you may want. You will have to accept some of my answers at face value and rely on the high trust and credibility factor ELI has earned over the lat 5.5 years.  Unlike our enemies who regularly lie and deceive letter recipients hiding their true identities, we at ELI put our true names and reputations out there and tell it like it is.  I am sorry I won't be able to give the explanations you want but you can thank the lawsuit that was filed against me last year by a copyright extortionist to try to shut me up. It fundamentally changed how ELI operated, which is being very open and transparent with our readership. Unfortunately, that openness and transparency is also being read and absorbed by our enemies which is used against us.

Because of this, ELI can no longer reveal or explain everything it knows on this very free and open discussion forum. You will have to rely and accept what some of us say based on our ongoing credibility and reputations.

These are some important points I want to make and I suggest new readers pay attention.

1.  No one is going to tell you dollar amounts specifically. It is "forbidden" information but there are a lot of discussions about dollar amounts under different scenarios.  Just assume it won't break you and or send anyone into bankruptcy. If it did become exorbitant or rapacious to the client, few lawyers including Oscar would ever agree to an amicable settlement. Regarding Oscar's fee, you sign up for Demand Letter Program is the point of entry for most folks. 

2. You are reading way too much into these cases.  They were cookie-cutter cases designed to instill the fear and paranoia that you are beginning to exhibit.  Those cases were filed with the intention that the news would get out about them helping "motivate" future victims in settling up.

3. Believe it or not I don't always advise people to hire Oscar and neither does Oscar! For me, lawyers are bound by certain rules of conduct that non-lawyers don't have to.  For some people, they may choose to burrow themselves and hide out for 3 years. You don't need a lawyer to do that. There are pros and cons to any approach and is largely based on people's dispositions and personalities.

4.  I've said this for years and it is still true, statistically speaking, letter recipients have less than a 1% chance of ever getting sued.  Thousands (if not ten thousands) of letters go out ever year.  Assuming "only" 1,000 letters went out in one year and 10 people were served a lawsuit, That would equate to 1%.  Well, very few copyright extortionists have filed 10 lawsuits a year.  And just because they do doesn't mean they are "good quality" lawsuits.  Most lawsuits are filed for the purpose of "motivating" a settlement, not "go all the way".

5. Most lawyers work on a retainer and high hourly fee basis. This is why all the copyright extortionists tell you to consult an attorney.  They know what most attorneys will say and quote.  So this is the unwritten rule.  "Go consult with a qualified attorney (except if his name is Oscar Michelen)".

While Oscar doesn't work for free, he does things for our clients no other lawyer will for a fixed fee through the Defense Letter Program. Of course, that service doesn't include all the fixings such as a phone conversation but that is where I come in.  I don't give legal advice but I know how Oscar's defense letter program and office works and most of the relevant issues.

6. Many of the questions you are asking as to "why" this or that are psychological motivation questions.  The copyright extortionists are in it for the easy money, not the pain, angst, or negative publicity of lawsuits.  Those lawsuits filed were obviously a "cheat" to anyone who read them.  They were cookie-cutter and boiler-plate and laughable.  They banked on the fact that there are many people ignorant of the legal process and will roll over.  For example, most victims don't realize that a counter-suit can be filed once someone opens that door.  A victim did exactly that a few years ago and flipped the tables and filed a counter-suit against the copyright extortionist and then started taking measures to initiate discovery to uncover information and the true nature of their copyright extortion operation.  What started out as a "motivational" lawsuit backfired tremendously. They learned and read about ELI and put into practice what was discussed theoretically.  If someone files a lawsuit against, you can always file a counter-suit. And even if they are willing to drop their side, you don't have to drop the lawsuit. It was never revealed how it ended but shortly thereafter, that copyright extortionist left the business.

Most copyright extortionists are cowardly. Nearly all hide behind the corporate names, very few want to reveal or sign their true names because then people would start reporting and complaining about them on the Internet and their online reputation would be mud.  So they try to secretly get money without having to reveal who they are.  They want the money without the pain and aggravation.  The front line people are the ones who have to endure the consequences of the ongoing battles.

Regarding your assumption of having to hire a lawyer for a corporation, small corporations have an advantage.  A judgment against a small corporation means very little because they have few assets.  You close the checking account and a judgment against a small corporation becomes uncollectable.

NF, I don't know your personal situation but you are playing it exactly how Getty wants to with the overt paranoia. Some of your assumptions are terribly flawed because you don't have all the information that we do.
I'm a non-lawyer but not legally ignorant either. Under the 1st Amendment, I have the right to post facts & opinions using rhetorical hyperbole, colloquialisms, metaphors, parody, snark, or epithets. Under Section 230 of CDA, I'm only responsible for posts I write, not what others write.

 

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