I am getting slammed by photographers

[RyanHealy]

Hey Guys,

My first post in these forums...

I've gotten three settlement demand letters from Getty. I then hired Matthew for a 30-minute call over the summer, which was super helpful. At that time I told him I would right an expose on my blog about Getty's unethical actions.

Well, I finally got around to publishing my expose earlier this week -- with links back to ELI for anybody facing a similar situation.

At first, my readers were sympathetic, and I expected most people would be sympathetic. But now I'm getting slammed with comments from photographers about how I should quit whining and just pay up. (!!!)

I'm responding to their comments as best I can, but my responses carry less weight since I'm defending myself.

Anyway, if you'd like to respond to any of the crazy comments I'm getting (or just see how people respond to this issue), feel free to do so here:

http://www.ryanhealy.com/getty-images-extortion-letter/

And if posting this link is not appropriate, feel free to delete it. Thanks.

Ryan

[Mulligan]

Ryan, that's a good article you wrote. As for the photographers bitching and moaning, I'd personally either not approve their comments (it's your freaking blog) or write a short one paragraph boilerplate response crucifying their stupid arguments and then paste that in every time a new photographer posted.

If these photographers are losing so much money, how do they have time to write these super long comments crying about how copyright infringers are screwing them all the time? I don't see why you feel you have to defend yourself. You made your case so why repeat it endlessly for tools who are trolling your site?

[Greg Troy (KeepFighting)]

Ryan, I thought your article was very well written and explained your points concisely. As for the negative comments from photographers what they don't seem to realize or understand is that no one is advocating copyright infringement nor does anyone here on ELI support anyone that knowingly takes a person's intellectual property and uses it without permission or paying for it. What we are against his Getty's business model of legalized extortion and using it as a business model to make money rather than truly protect their artist intellectual property rights.

[RyanHealy]

Mulligan - Thanks for the feedback. I thought about turning off comments, but comments are good for SEO. I want my article to be found to warn others about the dangers of using images on websites.

Greg - Thanks for the feedback. I totally agree with your analysis. The photographers keep harping on about the need for them to be protected, etc. But they fail to grasp the situation. In cases of innocent infringement, a simple cease and desist would do. These settlement demands are just outrageous (unless you're a photographer -- then screw the little people!).

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

ahemmmmm, I'm a photographer, so I get the luxury of seeing both sides of this.. Yes "most" photogs will jump on the "you stole it, now pay" bandwagon, but not all.. There are also a very large number of photogs that no longer work with Getty, Istock and other agencies because they basically have been selling them short. It's these narrow minded artists that will never make any money from photography, unless they take off the blinders and do things differently..

Mulligan - Thanks for the feedback. I thought about turning off comments, but comments are good for SEO. I want my article to be found to warn others about the dangers of using images on websites.

Greg - Thanks for the feedback. I totally agree with your analysis. The photographers keep harping on about the need for them to be protected, etc. But they fail to grasp the situation. In cases of innocent infringement, a simple cease and desist would do. These settlement demands are just outrageous (unless you're a photographer -- then screw the little people!).

[April Brown (AuctionApril)]

I no longer buy images from Getty, Istock and others. I buy photos directly from photogs or hire my favorite photog, Dave Sizer, to shoot content for me. I want the photog to get a fair fee that he or she negotiates with me directly.

[RyanHealy]

Good idea. The photog probably makes more that way - cut out the middle man.

By the way, here's the thread on Shutterstock in case anybody is interested in seeing the discussion there.

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/abt125330-0-asc-0.html

[April Brown (AuctionApril)]

Ryen, I was about to put myself into the conversation but after reading your posts, I don't think you need any help.  But if I were to post I would write " If I am at the offices of Getty Images and decide to use the toilet and tear off 4 squares of TP and wipe my arse , I would consider that Fair Use. But if I took the entire roll of toilet paper and stuffed it into my purse, I am pretty sure I know I am a thief. I won't go to jail for taking a shit but I could go to jail for the latter. Not for theft but for disorderly conduct. Note to self: white senior women don't get arrested these days for stealing $2.00.".

One more thing. If I am in the grocery store and pick up an apple, take a bite, then put the apple back, the damages would be assessed at the value of the apple at the time of the bite. Not on the fact that I deprived the store from finding another customer who "might" have bought that apple to make a pie. Further if I put the apple in my purse and walked out of the store, the apple is still worth $2.39 a pound, not $2,390 a pound.

[Matthew Chan]

Ryan,

Glad to have you join us here on the ELI Forums. I have no problems you asking for ELI Community help. You have done a great service in using your platform in getting the word out. Thanks for referring people to ELI to get help.

The reason why they are picking on you is that you are the sole blogger of your website.  They figure they can badger and insult you there. They figure they can gang up on you.  The truth of the matter is that you really hold all the cards on anything anyone posts on YOUR blog/website.

We don't see many of those big-mouth photographers come here running their traps. There are too many equally big-mouthed "friendlies" here to counter them. Plus we don't put up with a lot of their propaganda BS here.

As a fellow blogger, I believe that when people post comments, they need to be mindful of where they are and who they speak to.  Remember, it is YOUR website and your HOME.  Don't let anyone shit in (or on) you or your house.

I have no problems with people disagreeing with me as long as they are respectful.  But if they decided to cross the line, I will not hesitate to "evict" them pronto. I suggest you do the same.

You don't have to defend yourself on your own blog/website.  It is YOUR article and YOUR opinion.  It is YOUR platform they are using to attack you with.  You don't have to be "attacked" by freaks that have really nothing with the main subject matter of your blog which is copywriting.

These people can piss and moan all they want.  If they are upset, they can launch their own blog/website and vent all they want instead of using the bandwidth of well-established blogs/websites such as yours and mine here.

As you can see, I am not very patronizing and have little tolerance for disrespect.

Hey Guys,

My first post in these forums...

I've gotten three settlement demand letters from Getty. I then hired Matthew for a 30-minute call over the summer, which was super helpful. At that time I told him I would right an expose on my blog about Getty's unethical actions.

Well, I finally got around to publishing my expose earlier this week -- with links back to ELI for anybody facing a similar situation.

At first, my readers were sympathetic, and I expected most people would be sympathetic. But now I'm getting slammed with comments from photographers about how I should quit whining and just pay up. (!!!)

I'm responding to their comments as best I can, but my responses carry less weight since I'm defending myself.

Anyway, if you'd like to respond to any of the crazy comments I'm getting (or just see how people respond to this issue), feel free to do so here:

http://www.ryanhealy.com/getty-images-extortion-letter/

And if posting this link is not appropriate, feel free to delete it. Thanks.

Ryan

[Matthew Chan]

Absolutely agree here.  I try to take most of my photos if possible. However, I have also hired a professional photographer on a work-for-hire.  I pay them to use their expertise/camera/equipment to take good digital shots. 

But those digital image files get delivered to me to be used/modified/edited/transformed wherever I want, whenever I want, however I want.  If they can't agree to that then I find another photographer to work with or I find an alternative to a photo.

There are still a number of photographers who think they are so uniquely qualified (some might bet), that they can command control of the images their employers/clients spend money for them to take.

Wedding photographers come to mind....  You spend all that money to have them take photos but then they decide how many copies you can make and what you can do with them?  GMAFB.

I no longer buy images from Getty, Istock and others. I buy photos directly from photogs or hire my favorite photog, Dave Sizer, to shoot content for me. I want the photog to get a fair fee that he or she negotiates with me directly.

[RyanHealy]

Wedding photographers come to mind....  You spend all that money to have them take photos but then they decide how many copies you can make and what you can do with them?  GMAFB.

Totally agree with you on that. Family photo studios are the same way. They charge you big money for a sitting fee, charge big money for prints, but then try to retain copyright of the photos -- which are of your own family!

Even more irritating, they delete your photos after about 1 year if you don't buy any more prints during that time.

Last time I got family photos taken, I negotiated copyright as part of my purchase so I could use the photo on my annual Christmas card. If I had not of done this, I would have been in violation of copyright.

[stinger]

Ryan,  Thanks for taking the time to publicize this matter.  I was going to add some comments in support of your position, but it seems that you have matters well in hand. 

Still, if you feel you need a third party to respond to any particular Getty backer on your blog, feel free to call on me.  You can find me scanning ELI at least 3 days per week.

We do not advocate copyright infringement.  However, we do believe that using the law to extort money in innocent situations should be a far worse crime than copyright infringement.

[Lettered]

There are a couple of legitimate comments from the Getty supporters on that blog.  I agree that some images may be worth $1000 or more.  However, I really doubt that the vast majority of the stock shots are worth anywhere near that.  I think the vast majority of the innocent infringement cases like those found here on the ELI site are in the < $20 market value range.

  In my opinion, if Getty were being genuine, they would base their demand on past sales history for each particular image, and supply that information to the alleged infringer to support their claim.

[RyanHealy]

stinger - Thanks for the offer to help. I appreciate that.

Also, I've just published a 2,200+ word follow-up post called:

"Attack of the Trollogs! Plus More Thoughts about Getty Extortion Letters"

If you are interested, you can read it here:
http://www.ryanhealy.com/attack-of-the-trollogs/

Ryan

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

Good article, and kudos to you for writing it! It reminded me of the case of a Getty images customer AND contributor, yes I said contributor ( ie. photographer) that was out of the country on business and upon his return he realized that the license for his image had expired..well he only realized it because he had a letter from getty images waiting for him..mind you, this was not only a customer, but one of their "suppliers" as well!! and to boot, the license was expired something like 1 week..

stinger - Thanks for the offer to help. I appreciate that.

Also, I've just published a 2,200+ word follow-up post called:

"Attack of the Trollogs! Plus More Thoughts about Getty Extortion Letters"

If you are interested, you can read it here:
http://www.ryanhealy.com/attack-of-the-trollogs/

Ryan