Letters from LCS - no response after 5 weeks?

[Arryn]

First, thanks to everyone here donating their time to assist those of us who get these letters. On 12/2 I received an LCS letter for a single image. Two weeks later I responded in a respectful manner, asking them how they arrived at their requested fee. Two days after I sent my letter I got a Final Notice letter from them, and lo and behold they have a new mailing address (which they never disclosed). I can only assume my first letter got to them, as logically their mail should have been forwarded, so I did not send another copy of my original letter to their new mailing address. But it's been about 5 weeks and I've heard nothing from them after their Final Notice letter. Is this odd, or normal from a letter timing standpoint? I guess my paranoia kicks in and I wonder if they've been plotting a lawsuit these last 5 weeks..

[stinger]

Their m.o. is to give your conscience some time to scare the crap out of yourself.  They find their targets to be easier pickings this way.

Final Notice usually never means a law suit is coming.  But they sure make it sound like that would be their next step.

[Arryn]

Final Notice usually never means a law suit is coming.  But they sure make it sound like that would be their next step.

Yes they do, Stinger. I appreciate your insight. I'll sit tight for now. I've certainly run the gamut of emotions after receiving these letters like everyone else has: stomach dropping angst, fear of the unknown, anger, frustration, and finally, apathy.

[stinger]

Keep reading the forum.  Educate yourself.  It will help with the angst,

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

For what it's worth, LCS can't sue you,only the owner of the copyright can sue you, LCS tries to collect on behalf of the owner, much like a sub contracted collection agency.

[Arryn]

My biggest concern is that the photo I used was taken by a well-known photographer who regularly photographs celebrities and such. But I never made a penny off it, nor did I use it for political or advertisement purposes. My humble little blog, where I used it, barely got 5 visits a day (I've since shut it down). The photographer has been known to sue, but it's primarily for larger scale cases and when the photos used are for political reasons or advertisements. I'm hoping the photographer will realize I'm just not worth the trouble...

[Matthew Chan]

Stinger is correct. All the emotions you are feeling is largely because you know very little and you are not yet educated. I don't mean this disrespectfully, it is a generalized comment.

The more people are legally educated on these matters, you will see that your extreme emotional reactions are excessive.

A healthy respect for the situation is both natural and prudent.  But extreme emotions plays into their hands. Fortunately for you, you are insightful enough to tap into the collective knowledge, wisdom, and resources of the ELI Community.

Stay involved and keep following our announcements. We will be among the first people on the web to get wind of any changes or new developments.

Last thing, as a general rule, lawsuits are the very last things they will consider due to the costs, energy, and time involved. Copyright extortionists are in this for the easy money and people who become low-hanging fruit.

The few lawsuits that are filed generally fall into Year 2  to Year 3 range prior to the expiration of statute of limitations.

Yes they do, Stinger. I appreciate your insight. I'll sit tight for now. I've certainly run the gamut of emotions after receiving these letters like everyone else has: stomach dropping angst, fear of the unknown, anger, frustration, and finally, apathy.

[Arryn]

Thanks for your perspective, Matthew, that is a great help. I've been tooling around the ELI site for some time getting educated. Regardless, angst is still present, as I can't imagine anyone is ever comfortable with the threat of a suit down the road. But I'll stand firm and maintain vigilance.

[Matthew Chan]

I am going to remind you that your "angst" is YOUR experience, not everyone elses. We cannot control how people choose to feel. We give lots of good information. Some people feel much better, others feel no different even with information.  It comes down to their own personal issues and personality makeup, not the reality of the situation.

Even if a lawsuit were to occur, it is not the end of the world. It is very inconvenient but there are tactics to fight off bogus lawsuits and make it uncollectible altogether.

Some people like me are aggressive fighters but I am accustomed to standing up for myself and I know enough to be a pain in the ass. But then again, I have gone out of my way to learn defense tactics and strategies and I do my best to NOT depend on expensive lawyers.

Knowledge and the right attitude goes a long way in not becoming a victim.

Thanks for your perspective, Matthew, that is a great help. I've been tooling around the ELI site for some time getting educated. Regardless, angst is still present, as I can't imagine anyone is ever comfortable with the threat of a suit down the road. But I'll stand firm and maintain vigilance.

[Arryn]

After a full 3 months I received a response to my letter asking how LCS arrived at their ridiculous settlement offer. First, they replied via email. Second, the email was riddled with grammatical errors (primarily missing words, as if someone was in a hurry to send the email). The LCS rep. tried to educate me on the difference between Rights Managed vs Royalty-Free Images, and said that Royalty-Free equivalent images that you can get at stock photo sites don't apply here. She writes that this is high-end creative content with high production costs suitable for license by large businesses.

But she never answers my question of how the settlement figure of just over $1000 was arrived at. She closes by saying LCS will not, under any circumstances, provide confidential sales data or costs incurred to an infringing party or legal rep. She attached signed proof that the photographer has mandated LCS to handle copyright compliance, a Settlement/Release agreement, a document showing what forms of payment they accept, and a signed Confirmation of Rights Holdership. Then she reduced the settlement offer by $300, payable in 15 days...

So my settlement amount has bounced around by $300 or so but still seems ridiculous at almost $800. Again, LCS has not answered my fundamental question of how they arrived at their figure, and they clearly stated they will not. Anyone have thoughts on how to proceed? Does Rights-Managed vs Royalty-Free make any difference in how someone handles a situation like this? The photo in question was taken by a well-known photographer.

I don't mind fighting this and being a pain-in-the-booty, as I have been educating myself on this site and know the chances of a suit are < 1%. But I just want to ensure I'm not overlooking something.

[michmo823]

I am facing the exact same problem as you.

In fact, I am also at the same stage.  Getty has replied to my email and stated the same thing regarding Rights Managed vs Royalty Free.  I have not crafted a reply.

Bear in mind though, that the Confirmation of Rights Holdership is nothing more than an internal document by Getty.  It does not prove anything.  What you wanna see from them, is a copy of the registration certificate.  It looks something like this:

http://www.johntitor.strategicbrains.com/graphicsC/CopyrightCertificateP1_top1.jpg

I would love to hear any suggestions on how to proceed as well.

What I've read from the forums and everywhere else so far is to request for the actual Certificate of Registration from the US Copyright Office from Getty (in your case, LCS).  And of course, after that they would supposedly reply that it is confidential, in which case... you should tell them that you are willing to sign a confidentiality agreement.  That's as far as I know.

[Greg Troy (KeepFighting)]

I am facing the exact same problem as you.

In fact, I am also at the same stage.  Getty has replied to my email and stated the same thing regarding Rights Managed vs Royalty Free.  I have not crafted a reply.

Bear in mind though, that the Confirmation of Rights Holdership is nothing more than an internal document by Getty.  It does not prove anything.  What you wanna see from them, is a copy of the registration certificate.  It looks something like this:

http://www.johntitor.strategicbrains.com/graphicsC/CopyrightCertificateP1_top1.jpg

I would love to hear any suggestions on how to proceed as well.

What I've read from the forums and everywhere else so far is to request for the actual Certificate of Registration from the US Copyright Office from Getty (in your case, LCS).  And of course, after that they would supposedly reply that it is confidential, in which case... you should tell them that you are willing to sign a confidentiality agreement.  That's as far as I know.

If you are going to engage them you may find this useful.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/an-experiment-against-getty/

[Arryn]

I guess my primary question comes down to this: since this was an innocent infringement of a single photo, do I just shut off my correspondence with LCS at this point, call it a day, and try to stick it out for 3 years, hoping for the best, or do I continue to try and engage these people? If I do the latter, I feel like it could go on ad nauseum, with neither side getting anywhere, so why even bother to do that? I made a first attempt, lawyers and a judge would be able to see that, and their answers didn't make sense. If I shut it down entirely at this point, knowing they won't provide the answers I'm seeking, why bother continuing to draft these responses to no avail?

I'll admit that I hardly slept last night because of their letter. My mind spirals out of control and I envision a ridiculous judgment of tens of thousands of dollars via a prolonged lawsuit. Yes, I know, ridiculous, right? I just couldn't shut my brain off. I can't imagine anyone gets happy feelings from getting these things.

But no, I'm not considering sending them a dime...    It's the principle, how they demand this money with strong-arm tactics, like the Mafia.

[michmo823]

If you are going to engage them you may find this useful.

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/forum/getty-images-letter-forum/an-experiment-against-getty/

Hey Greg, thanks for the response.

I actually read the entire Scribd documents you uploaded back then.

Unfortunately, I am not from the US, but from Singapore.  So as brilliant as your response was, and I sure wish I could use that as well, I can't.

[stinger]

I guess my primary question comes down to this: since this was an innocent infringement of a single photo, do I just shut off my correspondence with LCS at this point, call it a day, and try to stick it out for 3 years, hoping for the best, or do I continue to try and engage these people? If I do the latter, I feel like it could go on ad nauseum, with neither side getting anywhere, so why even bother to do that? I made a first attempt, lawyers and a judge would be able to see that, and their answers didn't make sense. If I shut it down entirely at this point, knowing they won't provide the answers I'm seeking, why bother continuing to draft these responses to no avail?

I'll admit that I hardly slept last night because of their letter. My mind spirals out of control and I envision a ridiculous judgment of tens of thousands of dollars via a prolonged lawsuit. Yes, I know, ridiculous, right? I just couldn't shut my brain off. I can't imagine anyone gets happy feelings from getting these things.

But no, I'm not considering sending them a dime...    It's the principle, how they demand this money with strong-arm tactics, like the Mafia.

I recommend you do what you have underlined.  It's less hassle than engaging them and will get you just as far.  If their badgering over the three year period is too bothersome, you can try Oscar's letter program.