Small Business up against big Getty

[LiveLoveLaugh]

Hi there!

I have been reading these forums since I recieved my first Getty letter back in July of this year. The advice on here is wonderful and I want to thank Matthew Chan & Oscar Michelen for creating this website!

The reason for my posting is that my situation is like many others, however a little unique.
Here is my story in short:

July 2013 - receive first Getty letter demanding $1275.00 for one image.
I am thrown for a curve as I have never heard of anything like this and at first, suspect it is a scam. In my letter it states that I am using an image on my homepage that is licensed to Getty. As we all know, they add a grainy black and white scan to the end of the document to show the image in question. I look at the image and I see that the image they are saying I used, and the actual image on my website are different. One is of a dog at the end of a dock, and the other is of a hammock on a beach. What the heck?? Either way I remove the image immediately. I contact my lawyers, send off a nice letter saying I received this letter in error and think it is all done with.

August - I receive an EMAIL from Nancy Monson stating that they received my letter. She states "The features of the image found on your website match the features of the image that we exclusively represent. While you have been using a modified version of the image in question, it is our position that there is no question that we are talking about the same image". I am led to believe at this point that the photographer of the "hammock" image must have used parts of that image to create the image of the dog I was using on my website. These are two completely different images but their pixel-bot says they are one and the same.

Just to be done with it I write a letter back, and I make a generous offer to pay $500 in order to settle. In this letter I state that going forward, all communication from Getty should be directed to my mailing address.

October - Surprise, surprise - Getty rejects my offer to settle. Shortly after this I receive a letter from NCS trying to collect the full amount of $1275.00 on Getty's behalf.

This is where I am now. I am in the process of drafting up a short letter in response to NCS.

I am slightly confused about how to proceed as I feel like I have made an honest effort to settle. I also do not know how much ground Getty has to stand on with two images that are not even the same! I understand that the photographer must have used one image to create the other, but I am unclear on how far the copyright protection goes in a situation like this. If Getty has the rights to a image of a hammock in front of sky, and that photographer uses the same sky in 5 other images, Getty has the rights to those 5 other images as well? Any help or opinions on this would be greatly appreciated!

I run a small business in Canada (only myself) and don't like being bullied by big corporations

Thank you!!

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

Why would you offer to settle if the image in question was a different image?
Why would you believe anything that Nancy Monson states?? she simply wants your money and will say anything to get it..
If you contacted your lawyer, why didn't they send a letter on your behalf?

Getty's software has been known to make crazy mistakes, they know this. If it's a different image I would tell Monson and NCS to pound salt.

Have your attorney send a letter, or get  used to dealing with them for another 2 + yrs., they target low hanging fruit, and you've already dangled a 500$ carrot under their nose..

[Greg Troy (KeepFighting)]

You have made a MORE than generous offer which I would not have done if the images are different.  I also would not pay a penny until they can show you how they arrived that the images are the same (sometimes a part of an image such as a cloud may be used and pic-scout can detect it and I would also want proof they hold the exclusive rights they claim.

They are presenting you will a bill and no proof.

[Couch_Potato]

I'm not an expert on image technology so forgive my ignorance but could the reverse not be true in that the image Getty have the rights to could be made up of aspects of the image on the OP's website rather than the other way round?

In any event, if they claim to have proof that parts of the image are identical I'd ask for it just to see what information they could provide. Might be interesting.

If they couldn't provide it they don't have a case.

[lucia]

First: Picscout makes weird mistakes.   For example, I loaded up an digital image that was nothing more than a square with an X across it. Picscout's browser add on tool said it was "the same" as a bird sitting on an electric wire. The shared element is the diagonal line. Seriously....

Mind you, we don't know if Getty is using Picscout or something more sophisticated.  More sophisticated comparisons are technologically feasible and Getty may be using something else when ultimately sending out their letters.

But still, IF they took this to court, they would have to be able to explain precisely what element in your image comes from the other image.  So, it is totally reasonable to ask them to explain precisely what element in your image they think matches the one in their image. Maybe they are going to claim a shoreline shape? Maybe someone cut and pasted in water and the ripples are the same? Who knows? But whatever they claim is the same, they ought to be able to tell you. 

Obviously, your also in the "it's one image" category. So, they are unlikely to sue. But these other factors make it even more unlikely they will sue. After all: it's one image and it's a more complicated case to make in court.

[Jerry Witt (mcfilms)]

I forbid you to pay them $500.

 

Seriously though, have you looked at the images side by side? Are they even close? I would write one more letter stating that it is unfortunate that their software cannot tell the difference between a dog and a hammock, but you have begun tracking your time for researching this issue and your company will submit an invoice for the time spent researching this if they continue to pester you.

EDIT: Almost forgot to tag this #GettyFlubs
Also, if you could email the two images in question I would be very interested to see how they differ.

[LiveLoveLaugh]

Thank you everyone for your support!!

Just to clarify - the first letter to Getty was sent from my lawyer, but they were instructed to reply to me. My lawyer seemed pretty sure they would let the whole issue drop since it is not the same image. When they didn't, she suggested I make an offer to settle, so that's why I did that. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have, but alas, you learn from your mistakes!

The images do have some similarities. They both have a blue sky and some water. However the hammock image has sand and a beach, and the image I used is simply a dock extending out with a dog sitting at the end of it (with blue sky and water in the background). I can send the hammock image if there is interest, however I have completely deleted and removed the dog on the dock image off of my website, computer, etc. I can't see where their technology is seeing the images are exactly the same...probably something in the sky is my best guess

I will continue to come back and update!!

Cheers

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

Your "Lawyer" is an idiot, I strongly suggest reconsidering ever using this person in the future...What kind of attorney working for a client, tells the opposing side to contact client? and then suggests the recipient offer a settlement for a completely different image?!

I own and have registered the phrase LiveLoveLaugh, please send me five thousand dollars or risk being sued!..Feel free to have your attorney contact me!!  We've seen loads of dumb lawyers here, but they are all on the opposing side, until now....

On a serious note, just because you made an offer to settle doesn't really mean much, you're entitled to change your mind.

[Greg Troy (KeepFighting)]

WTF?!?  "Don't worry they'll drop it when they see it's not the same same picture.......they didn't drop it well you better settle then."  Does your lawyer work for Getty? 

Serious, that makes as much sense as Getty demanding payment from letter recipients and refusing to show they even have rights to the image in question.  If you are going to use an attorney you need to get one that specializes in IP law.

In my opinion I think you have very little to worry about, Getty does not go to court over single image cases 99.99999999999999999% of the time and rarely goes to court at all because their images are not registered properly in most cases and they really don't want to have the spot light put on and their business model.

[Lettered]

I'm not surprised.  From my experience the legal field is fraught with incompetence and indifference, and you just have to keep "shopping around" till you find a "gem" that specializes in your situation.  In this case that "gem" would be Oscar, in my opinion.

[Jerry Witt (mcfilms)]

Yeah Oscar has pretty much changed my opinion of lawyers. But in my experience they are lazy and not prone to a fight. (Sort of the opposite of me.)

I mean I can almost understand the thought process the lawyer went through: "Look, if I have to draft another letter that is going to cost him. And if they sue he'll have to pay much, much more for me to appear with him in court. And he probably won't get all his time and expenses back. Better for him to just make an offer and pay."

But that is just dumb. And that is part of the trolling problem. SO MANY people think it is just faster and easier to pay off the extortionist.

Why not save yourself the $500 and become a thorn in THEIR side? Notify Getty that you will track your time verifying that these images are not the same. Bill them for collecting the evidence. Send me both images and I will "bill" you for my time to analyze these images. You can very easily generate an invoice for $700 to $1000.

Then submit this invoice to their accounting department. Notify them that if it is not paid within 10 days you will turn it over to a collection agency. Keep asking for the supervisor of whoever you talk to until you speak to the CEO. Seriously, if you are in the right THIS is the way to deal with this situation.

And if you want to take it a step further, let them know that you will be sharing this information with the EFF and other media outlets.