CPM Legal Settlement Demand Lettter on Behalf of Hawaiian Art Network

[milosron]

mc - how did you ever guess that I was a "nice guy" and thanks for the words of wisdom?  I hope not to waste anybody's time. I would rather pay Oscar than them but first I am composing my own next response to Martinen.  (BTW - while I was reviewing those links you and others supplied in order to document them, the baby skunks image on the "dailypictures" site was gone and instead I got a virus (the bad one that says I have a virus and have to send money to fix it).  Talk about being punished for good deeds.  Thank heavens for Malwarebytes which I carry with me always.)

A couple of questions. 

1- I've been reading as much as I can on ELI and it doesn't appear that the defense team feels that the seeding of images to entrap people is necessarily illegal, I suppose because of the ambiguity of the copyright laws and how do we prove who is doing the seeding?  In an earlier post I mentioned that when I first received my letter I smelled scam right away and after doing some pre-ELI research on my own, called my Attorney General's Office and after a lengthy discussion with a nice woman she suggested I file a complaint at www.ice3.gov the Internet Crime Complaint Center.  Does anyone feel that this would productive? I don't mean to do this instead of putting up my own fight but in addition to it.

2- From your experience is there a good time to inform the lawyer that you are consulting with ELI?  Or maybe that's not necessary.  I just googled "CPM Creative" and there is already a link to the letter.

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

I don't think any of us ever said the seeding of images was legal or not, however if one were able to somehow prove that an artist was intentionally seeding free site with images, then pursuing alleged infringements, I find it hard to believe any judge would see this in a good light..regardless if it's legal or not.. To my knowledge this has never been brought in a court..yet.

Not to backtrack on the "seeding" theory, but another possability is that these free wallpaper site feed off of themselves..meaning once an image gets on one, a robot can then "scrape" the images, before you know it that one site has had multiple scrapers and the images appear on multiple sites..just another theory..again the question is proving the seeding.. I also believe that one doesn't really need to prove this...just showing a judge that said image appears on x amount of sites will weaken any case, and certainly lean to the side of innoncent infringement..

I would not advise anybody that you are "consulting" with ELI, as this site is strictly informational, and we're certainly not lawyers (except Oscar)..besides chance are they already know you're discussing this with us..we're getting pretty well known these days..from both sides

[Jerry Witt (mcfilms)]

Hey milosron,

I'm glad you are down for the fight. And hopefully you have the ability to devote the time and energy to your case. Sometimes I say things to challenge people and check in to see if they are serious. Because honestly, when I consider the time I have spent on my issue and all the others I try to help with, it would have made more sense financially for me to just pay the fools. I think it takes a healthy dose of outrage and indignation about what some stock companies are doing in order to really see the fight through.

I would encourage you to follow your state attorney general's advice and file a complaint at www.ice3.gov the Internet Crime Complaint Center. Especially if, as you say, you are doing it in addition to your other efforts.

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

I'll second that notion to file the complaint, and my apologies for not addressing it in my previous post!

[Matthew Chan]

Glad to hear it. We are still rooting for you. These ELI Forums and the ELI Video Updates are every letter recipients best resource.

I just watched the latest update video with Matt and mc.  I appreciate all the work you do; and Matt, I do get it.  As a newbie I am just trying to get all the advice and insight I can.  How was I to know that 1000's of people get these letters and that I am not "special" until it happened to me.  I discovered ELI just a few days ago and needed to spend enough time on ELI to "get it."

[Matthew Chan]

What people need to understand is that trying to solely "out-lawyer" them with a legal argument only goes so far. For 99% of the cases, they won't listen.  mcfilms happens to be the 1% who was successful in making that happen. I can't spell out everything buy my track of letters speak for themselves fighting off all kinds of accusations from lawyers threatening ELI. You can find them on http://scribd.com/extortionletterinfo/shelf.

The meek and the weak will definitely fall. They spend their time on the easy fish, not vocal fighting guys like us.  We are unpredictable and they know there could be unintended, negative consequences dealing with someone who talks too much.

If you don't have the time or stomach for this, I think hiring Oscar is a great option. He can save people LOTs of time.  But people who cry they don't have a lot of money don't get a lot of sympathy on ELI either because we know that filing a lawsuit for a couple of images is pretty low.  So, you can either pay Oscar's discounted legal fees or you pay in personal time and energy to get yourself "trained".

But we cannot save people from themselves, nor can we tell people what THEY should do.  Every person must take that responsibility. We can only hope you will stand up or if you must pay, pay a "reasonable" amount, not the "ransom" amount.

mc - how did you ever guess that I was a "nice guy" and thanks for the words of wisdom?  I hope not to waste anybody's time. I would rather pay Oscar than them but first I am composing my own next response to Martinen.  (BTW - while I was reviewing those links you and others supplied in order to document them, the baby skunks image on the "dailypictures" site was gone and instead I got a virus (the bad one that says I have a virus and have to send money to fix it).  Talk about being punished for good deeds.  Thank heavens for Malwarebytes which I carry with me always.)

A couple of questions. 

1- I've been reading as much as I can on ELI and it doesn't appear that the defense team feels that the seeding of images to entrap people is necessarily illegal, I suppose because of the ambiguity of the copyright laws and how do we prove who is doing the seeding?  In an earlier post I mentioned that when I first received my letter I smelled scam right away and after doing some pre-ELI research on my own, called my Attorney General's Office and after a lengthy discussion with a nice woman she suggested I file a complaint at www.ice3.gov the Internet Crime Complaint Center.  Does anyone feel that this would productive? I don't mean to do this instead of putting up my own fight but in addition to it.

2- From your experience is there a good time to inform the lawyer that you are consulting with ELI?  Or maybe that's not necessary.  I just googled "CPM Creative" and there is already a link to the letter.

[Matthew Chan]

Just to add to mcfilms comment, every ELI Defense Team member has had to draw a line in the sand. And every one of us had to go through supporting "newbies" that come from nowhere. I used to get all kinds of phone calls from people who did ZERO homework. I finally put an end to that. 

Some newbies have done quite well defending themselves, others cave in never to be heard again. DieselFish comes to mind as being successful in his fight with Masterfile.  Even if he settles and pays, he did way better than the person who rolled over.  He has gotten the ELI community to give him huge visibility to his case to the point that the Masterfile employee is now under watch. However, it all started with him getting educated, making a stand, inviting help, share his information, etc.

DieselFish has gotten more leverage because the Masterfile employee got stupid and began embarrassing himself.

milosron, when I first got my letter over a year ago, I thought Matt and Oscar would sometimes be a little short with people. But I totally get it now. People come to the site totally freaking out because they got "the letter." It's easy to feel like you are being singled out. But once you dig into this site you'll find that almost all the questions you might have, have already been answered.

Another pattern that emerges is that some people sound like they are ready to stand up to the stock companies. But after the ELI community spends time coaching and trying to help them, they "chicken out" and ultimately roll over. Apparently they decide to settle and cut a check and never are seen on this forum. Well, this emboldens the copyright trolls and they just keep pumping out the letters.

You seem like a nice "guy" (since you saw the interview you can tell I can't guess gender over the internet). Maybe you are too nice. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say, "This far and no farther." You have to get mad and mean about this. I feel you have a strong case here. If you're up for it, you have a great support network here. But if your not -- and I intend no offense -- you are kind of wasting everyone's time.

[milosron]

Matthew - Thanks for the pep talk and for everything you do here.  I am going to at least give it one more try on my own using all that I am learning here.  So, if I use some text from one of your letters you won't site me for copyright infringement?   

[Matthew Chan]

Before you use my text, let me first go register my letter with the copyright agency (after the fact). That way I have better standing when I send you the ELI Extortion Letter.

The ELI Extortion Letter is the one where we suck in people to read the multiple letters I have written to various lawyers, agencies, etc. and "seeded" into Scribd.  Then, when you incorporate the text I originally wrote into your own letters, you will then receive a screenshot of the Scribd document, the "after-the-fact" copyright registration, and then the Shakedown Letter asking for $1,200 which I will kindly accept $500 because I am in a charitable mood.  Of course, I have to include the customary FAQ in case you have any issues with what we sent.

How does that sound to you?  :-)

Matthew - Thanks for the pep talk and for everything you do here.  I am going to at least give it one more try on my own using all that I am learning here.  So, if I use some text from one of your letters you won't site me for copyright infringement?   

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

Before you use my text, let me first go register my letter with the copyright agency (after the fact). That way I have better standing when I send you the ELI Extortion Letter.

The ELI Extortion Letter is the one where we suck in people to read the multiple letters I have written to various lawyers, agencies, etc. and "seeded" into Scribd.  Then, when you incorporate the text I originally wrote into your own letters, you will then receive a screenshot of the Scribd document, the "after-the-fact" copyright registration, and then the Shakedown Letter asking for $1,200 which I will kindly accept $500 because I am in a charitable mood.  Of course, I have to include the customary FAQ in case you have any issues with what we sent.

How does that sound to you?  :-)

Matthew - Thanks for the pep talk and for everything you do here.  I am going to at least give it one more try on my own using all that I am learning here.  So, if I use some text from one of your letters you won't site me for copyright infringement?   

Sounds like a well thought out and executed search engine friendly post to me!