Free Baitpapers

[Matthew Chan]

mcfilms,

I give you credit for going the extra mile to reach out and solicit commentary from them. But I think they have no PR sense. Unfortunately, I feel they really had no choice but to answer in that manner they did for PR purposes.  Their credibility is very low as far as I am concerned. Talk is cheap.  They have made little or no effort that I can see in getting any other message out other than bragging about how much they have enjoyed their PicScout relationship.

I also question what the motives are for pirates to steal photos only to give them away.  Sure, they might get some traffic and visibility but there is overhead to pay for to host all these free images.

If I was a photographer, I would scream bloody murder over this but everyone in the HAN camp and especially VK Tylor is suspiciously quiet about the issue.

Sorry, absent more information, I don't buy it.  I am not a conspiracy theory lover but there one response is not enough for me to believe.

Getty Images and Masterfile, for all their faults, continue to have much higher credibility than HAN in my book.

There has been a lot of speculation about how the HAN images got dispersed on so many free wall paper sites. Nobody's really sure and there is a lot of conjecture flying around.

So I asked them.

Here is the content of my letter:

Hi,

I notice that some of the print photographs you sell are available on free digital wallpaper sites like http://www.webshots.com. It seems like some of your artisans are posting their images on these sites and they are offered "Free" or for a very low download price. The exact terms of these "Wallpaper sites" are vague. But many individuals believe it includes permission to use these images on their own web site. This has resulted in several recent "Demand Letters" issued by Hawaiian Art Network for copyright infringement.

Although I am a strong advocate for copyright, this situation has led to a great deal of confusion in the marketplace. Are you aware of this situation? Are your artists at liberty to distribute their images through other outlets? Has H.A.N. contacted these sites and asked them to stop providing these image?

Thank you for your attention to this matter.
 
Jerry Witt

I was pleasantly surprised to get a reply the very next day. The position of HAN tracks with what has been said here. They say they HAVE issued takedown notices (hundreds), but many in the Eastern European sites don't respond. They suspect that originally a hacker gained access to the high resolution images. Once distributed to free wallpaper sites, they spread out widely.

I invited the representative of HAN to join the discussion here and I hope he takes up the offer.

[Extortion-Victim-No Longer]

Issued takedown notices, but have they sent demand letters to the freewallpaper sites?

[SoylentGreen]

I checked via Google for impressions of Tylor's Road to Hana - Turquoise Lagoon.
I went to the first 7 instances of the photo.
Out of the 7, a WhoIS search showed that two were registered through GoDaddy.

http://www.wallpaperzzz.com/widescreen-river-download/

http://v3wall.com/es/html/pic_down/1600_1200/pic_down_5488_1600_1200.htm

So, just in an informal search, nearly a third resided on domains wherein a DMCA takedown request would work immediately.

I smell scamola here.

S.G.

[Extortion-Victim-No Longer]

So I asked them.

I was pleasantly surprised to get a reply the very next day. The position of HAN tracks with what has been said here. They say they HAVE issued takedown notices (hundreds), but many in the Eastern European sites don't respond. They suspect that originally a hacker gained access to the high resolution images. Once distributed to free wallpaper sites, they spread out widely.

I invited the representative of HAN to join the discussion here and I hope he takes up the offer.

I too am surprised you got an answer, I wonder if we'll get a visit from someone from HAN at some point. You would think that as a good measure / business practice they would cut some slack to the "innocent infringers" that have stumbled upon these images and used them.... As much as I hate to say it, and maybe I'm wrong, but I still think they see this as an easy way to generate revenue, by using extortion like demand letter scare tactics. and this goes for all of the copyright trolls out there, not just Hawaiian Art Network.

In my case, the image was from a freewallpapers site. After talking to the lawyer who sent me the "shakedown letter" pleading my case &  without resolution, I was made to believe that if I didn't pay the $10,000 within the 30 day deadline, that I would be at risk of being criminally prosecuted  which could mean serving up to 5 years in Prison. I was reminded of this by email as well  as by phone. I was also reminded that being Canadian would not shield me... Also that my ignorance of copyright law was no defense even though the photo was from the freewallpapers site. (I am self taught on the internet & computers, so the phto was on my website for 2 weeks a 300 pixels by 225 pixels)  I now realise how naive I was to believe it was a possibility but I am not an expert of the law & he was, he scared me - a lot. To be honest I was in tears for 2 weeks until I finally got upset enough to start researching & learning about my rights. I came across ELI & Oscar thankfully, then the situation went away pretty fast. But I'll always remember feeling that fear, afraid of being taken away from my son, even spending one day in prison was enough to think about never mind 5 years!  I wasn't going to share this part of the story, mostly out of (again) 'fear'...but after reading all these posts, others need to know...BTW...I spoke with HAN twice & in tears explaining that it was an innocent mistake on my part but HAN told me to deal with the assigned lawyer instead. Who then told me pay up or pay the consequences. It was ELI & Oscar, who finally put my mind & nerves to rest. I will always be grateful for that. This whole experience has made me smarter, tougher but also angry, mostly because I really had no idea I couldn't use that photo.

There's a lot more to the story but thought I'd share a little bit...

[Extortion-Victim-No Longer]

Angry for thinking I would go to jail...over 1 small photo!

[SoylentGreen]

Extortion-Victim-No Longer, thanks for sharing your experience here.
This is the sort of thing that drives me; fighting the copyright trolls' use of over-the-top tactics, and the human cost of that.
Your case illustrates the lies and the intimidation tactics used.

Sounds like things are better for you now, and I'm sure that I speak for everyone here when I say that I'm glad for that.

S.G.

[Robert Krausankas (BuddhaPi)]

Prison? for 5 years they actually threatened you with this??

Just when I thought my respect level for Hawaiian Art Network could go no lower, I read this!

I am literally besides myself!

[Matthew Chan]

FYI, if it means anything, that lawyer did get some bitter pills along the way.

Extortion-Victim-No Longer, thanks for sharing your experience here.
This is the sort of thing that drives me; fighting the copyright trolls' use of over-the-top tactics, and the human cost of that.
Your case illustrates the lies and the intimidation tactics used.

Sounds like things are better for you now, and I'm sure that I speak for everyone here when I say that I'm glad for that.

S.G.

[Extortion-Victim-No Longer]

Thanks all, I appreciate your kind remarks! I rushed the story because I wanted to post but was on my way out the door...Honestly, it was the jail time threat that really got to me the most. I had reason to believe its validity when I contacted our region's most sought after & successful patent attorney,  who happened to be a friend of my family...When I sent him a copy of the demand letter I received from BS, even he said that given the fact that the image was not mine to use, not even the best lawyer in the world could get me off...

I started this thread because over the period of weeks while this was happening, I felt in my gut that this was a trap for the unknowing website builder like myself. I recall receiving the "shakedown Letter" one day & after reading it, I thought how could this be happening...Seriously? $10,000 dollars for one photo that I presumed was free to use...My husband thought it was spam & told me to ignore it...

But of course I couldn't stop thinking about it so I googled the lawyers name & saw that he existed.

Naturally, I wanted to end the stress so I called him & tried to rationalise that it was an accident & that no infringement had been intended. He was very quick to explain the laws of copyright infringement to me & no matter what I said, at the end of the day, the only thing he wanted me to say was that I would pay. I remember crying on the phone & pleading which got me nowhere...if anything it gave him the confidence to further intimidate & scare me.

The next thing I did was call VKT gallery & ended up on the phone with his wife. I was again in tears fearful of the prison threat...I have never broken the law except for maybe speeding, so the thought of jail was suffocating me inside & out. She told me I wouldn't go to jail, but that it would cost me something  & then informed me to contact HAN & ask to speak to the Art Curator. I did, & gave him the same speech, pleading once again. He told me to call BS to deal with him directly...but I had already tried 4 or 5 times over the phone & several times through email only to be reminded that criminal prosecution was hanging over my head. As I mentioned in the earlier post, I was terrified, had nightmares & would find myself in tears even in the garden trying to find peace of mind planting flowers...what have you etc.

At one point I asked BS, where is the humanity in all of this? Here I am, I'm a good person & would never intentionally break any law, would never steal from another, I've made a stupid uneducated mistake of using this photograph for @ 2 weeks & now I am to come up with $10,000 dollars? I don't have that kind of cash on hand! His only response was "The humanity in this is to pay!" Well that is when I started getting angry and chose to fight back. I found ELI & Oscar & just like that my torment was over.

I have to say, at first when I saw their names appear on this awesome forum & how much they didn't like the negative exposure, I was rewarded by a slightly sweet revenge. Felt that they deserved it for what I was put through...but after time passed, I started to feel sorry for him.

I paid him out...I think it was $300...but was it really worth it for him to go after little me for $300 dollars? After all the dedication, time & money$$$ it cost him to get his degree only to have his reputation darkened. I went to Med school for 2 years before leaving it behind to begin an entrepreneur dream with my family. I know how much work & dedication is involved with getting a degree.

But even after the feeling sorry...all I have to do is remember how he spoke to me while I cried telling him how much I love my son & how he needs me & how I can't go to prison. On every call, he clearly did not care but always told me to pay or make a reasonable offer...

I sent him as much proof as I could to prove I couldn't pay them what they were after. He followed with that he would go after my husband who is also on the my website even though he is not administrator or owner as I am, but still liable. Enough time went by without a reply from me while I searched for answers & loopholes that he must have realised I wasn't lying. He finally emailed me & said "even a few hundred dollars is an offer". But by then, he had gone too far & I had already spoken with Oscar & Matthew over the phone. I made a decision to expose what had happened by associating myself with ELI. I wanted the truth & facts to come out, wanted others to have some defence against this sort of attack...I did it because it was the right thing to do.

I do believe many actions deserve a second chance, for a person  to feel remorseful & be forgiven. I believe that BS regrets his dealings with me, primarily because of the light it has shed on him but not necessarily for what happened to me. If anything, judging by his personality during the time I dealt with him, if anything he is just as angry & soar over it all. I am sorry that it got this far & that it tarnished his reputation but had he been just a little more humane with me, none of this would have happened.

My website relies on good photos & since this has all happened, I deleted every photo I had thought free to use...5 years of work gone. I was blessed by several key individuals who volunteered me with unlimited use of thousands of photographs & I was able to re-build my website, even better than it was.

So there it is, the whole story & yes I am much better now, better educated too.

[Extortion-Victim-No Longer]

Thank you again everyone for your kind comments...I feel a big weight off my shoulders! 

[dieselfish]

EVNL - I now feel like a chump for quaking in my boots over $2310.00.  I can empathize with the emotion - I'm still knee deep in my fight and I can't remember the last time I had a decent nights sleep.  It's easy for people with more experience to say that our cases are not special and though it does help to view the situation in this regard, it is still a very scary situation to be in.  I too have gained a lot of confidence since finding ELI.  It is comforting to know that we are not alone in this.  Sure, we have to make a stand in our own cases - but we aren't the only one's making a stand.   

[Jerry Witt (mcfilms)]

Wow EVNL, thanks for sharing that story.

The weird thing is, when I discuss this issue abstractly with the representative from HAN, their side seems understandable. But then when I hear real-world examples like this I am horrified.

They insist they are trying to prevent infringement. They are opposed to simply sending DMCA takedowns in the event of commercial usages with no compensation to the photographer. Okay, but there is reasonable and then there is EVIL. And trying to squeeze $10,000 out of someone under threat of a 5 year prison sentence for a short-term, innocent infringement, definitely falls in the second camp.

[Matthew Chan]

Thanks for getting the courage to finally share your story.  As you can see, your story is very moving to our readers. I daresay that he caved in very quickly at $300 because he was getting lots of heat. Plus, when you have a young, inexperienced lawyer with minimal track record going up against Oscar, it will not be pretty.

You have the unfortunate distinction of being the one of the first HAN cases ELI heard about. We are glad you found ELI and Oscar to help you.

You did pay a heavy emotional price. But your story will impact and move many people.  Many people have shared their stories but yours is probably the most egregious we have heard thus far. Chalk it up to the genius of Hawaiian Art Network's executive management and supreme lawyer-hiring ability.

Thanks all, I appreciate your kind remarks! I rushed the story because I wanted to post but was on my way out the door...Honestly, it was the jail time threat that really got to me the most. I had reason to believe its validity when I contacted our region's most sought after & successful patent attorney,  who happened to be a friend of my family...When I sent him a copy of the demand letter I received from BS, even he said that given the fact that the image was not mine to use, not even the best lawyer in the world could get me off...

I started this thread because over the period of weeks while this was happening, I felt in my gut that this was a trap for the unknowing website builder like myself. I recall receiving the "shakedown Letter" one day & after reading it, I thought how could this be happening...Seriously? $10,000 dollars for one photo that I presumed was free to use...My husband thought it was spam & told me to ignore it...

But of course I couldn't stop thinking about it so I googled the lawyers name & saw that he existed.

Naturally, I wanted to end the stress so I called him & tried to rationalise that it was an accident & that no infringement had been intended. He was very quick to explain the laws of copyright infringement to me & no matter what I said, at the end of the day, the only thing he wanted me to say was that I would pay. I remember crying on the phone & pleading which got me nowhere...if anything it gave him the confidence to further intimidate & scare me.

The next thing I did was call VKT gallery & ended up on the phone with his wife. I was again in tears fearful of the prison threat...I have never broken the law except for maybe speeding, so the thought of jail was suffocating me inside & out. She told me I wouldn't go to jail, but that it would cost me something  & then informed me to contact HAN & ask to speak to the Art Curator. I did, & gave him the same speech, pleading once again. He told me to call BS to deal with him directly...but I had already tried 4 or 5 times over the phone & several times through email only to be reminded that criminal prosecution was hanging over my head. As I mentioned in the earlier post, I was terrified, had nightmares & would find myself in tears even in the garden trying to find peace of mind planting flowers...what have you etc.

At one point I asked BS, where is the humanity in all of this? Here I am, I'm a good person & would never intentionally break any law, would never steal from another, I've made a stupid uneducated mistake of using this photograph for @ 2 weeks & now I am to come up with $10,000 dollars? I don't have that kind of cash on hand! His only response was "The humanity in this is to pay!" Well that is when I started getting angry and chose to fight back. I found ELI & Oscar & just like that my torment was over.

I have to say, at first when I saw their names appear on this awesome forum & how much they didn't like the negative exposure, I was rewarded by a slightly sweet revenge. Felt that they deserved it for what I was put through...but after time passed, I started to feel sorry for him.

I paid him out...I think it was $300...but was it really worth it for him to go after little me for $300 dollars? After all the dedication, time & money$$$ it cost him to get his degree only to have his reputation darkened. I went to Med school for 2 years before leaving it behind to begin an entrepreneur dream with my family. I know how much work & dedication is involved with getting a degree.

But even after the feeling sorry...all I have to do is remember how he spoke to me while I cried telling him how much I love my son & how he needs me & how I can't go to prison. On every call, he clearly did not care but always told me to pay or make a reasonable offer...

I sent him as much proof as I could to prove I couldn't pay them what they were after. He followed with that he would go after my husband who is also on the my website even though he is not administrator or owner as I am, but still liable. Enough time went by without a reply from me while I searched for answers & loopholes that he must have realised I wasn't lying. He finally emailed me & said "even a few hundred dollars is an offer". But by then, he had gone too far & I had already spoken with Oscar & Matthew over the phone. I made a decision to expose what had happened by associating myself with ELI. I wanted the truth & facts to come out, wanted others to have some defence against this sort of attack...I did it because it was the right thing to do.

I do believe many actions deserve a second chance, for a person  to feel remorseful & be forgiven. I believe that BS regrets his dealings with me, primarily because of the light it has shed on him but not necessarily for what happened to me. If anything, judging by his personality during the time I dealt with him, if anything he is just as angry & soar over it all. I am sorry that it got this far & that it tarnished his reputation but had he been just a little more humane with me, none of this would have happened.

My website relies on good photos & since this has all happened, I deleted every photo I had thought free to use...5 years of work gone. I was blessed by several key individuals who volunteered me with unlimited use of thousands of photographs & I was able to re-build my website, even better than it was.

So there it is, the whole story & yes I am much better now, better educated too.

[Mulligan]

EVNL, thank you for sharing your story.

It's remarkable to me that there are men and women practicing law who have hardened themselves to the point where money is apparently the only thing that has meaning for them. I honesty don't understand how these people can ignore the genuine pain they inflict on others with their outrageous and perverted demands for settlements.
 

[dieselfish]

This is the story that should be sent to the press.  EVNL, have you thought about sharing your story with the news media?