Need Help in the UK.

[MDGetty]

Getty sent my friends a demand for 800 pounds for one image that was removed almost 2 years ago. What they do. They did not know the picture was a copyright infringement.

[Oscar Michelen]

There are  numerous posts here about the UK issue and a link on our homepage to the FSB forum which is a UK-based forum with literally thousands of posts about the UK issue.  Good Luck!

[MDGetty]

Hello, I was asking here because FSB thread was closed and removed.

[Oscar Michelen]

Wow, didn't realize that,. so sorry.  I know that LimeOne is a law firm that has handled some of these issues in the UK, maybe they can be of service.

[MDGetty]

So, where can I read up on Innocent Infringement in the UK?

[Matthew Chan]

I did a Google search on "UK innocent infringement" and there are many relevant articles to read.

As an added comment, this forum is open to anyone in the world to post and discuss their issues. However, you should know that Oscar and I are mostly focused on U.S. issues because that is obviously where we live and do business. You can ask questions but there is no guarantee you will get a good answer.  Oscar will be more knowledgeable than I am in non U.S. copyright legal matters but I think he will agree he cannot take an "official legal" position for non U.S. matters because he is "only" a licensed and practicing attorney in the U.S.

MatthewC



MDGetty Wrote:
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> So, where can I read up on Innocent Infringement
> in the UK?

[mellow6]

Are there any proactive UK lawyers out there who are prepared to stand up for our rights, even if we wanted to take out a class action against the bully getty? It would be interesting to know as there doesn't seem to be many UK lawyers who are prepared to protect us. There are quite a few defences for innocent infringers so i am surprised that we UK folk are sitting here worrying so much about this. It's almost like being bullied at school but where the bully here is a large corporation using dubious means to make people pay. I could understand if they sent out a letter before action ( I think it's called a cease and desist letter in US) but they have not done so and I have read that even when they have not sent such a letter and are questioned about this they lie and say that they have sent it!  Well, I never received a cease and desist letter! Their settlement demand even goes further to say  it is irrelevant if we have taken down the image/s! There you do... what does that tell us! They don't care if the innocent infringer takes down the images upon learning of the situation. They want to bully us into the ground. Something needs to be done about this and quickly.  I am not sure about what limeone are about.  Has anyone had any recent dealings with them? I dont just want to pay someone to send of a standard template letter on my behalf to getty in the hope of getting paid £200. I need to know what it is they will write and how they tackle getty for that would convince me more to want to use them. Does anyone have any experience with limeone? Has anyone just ignored getty for I understand from many that to ignore them is the best policy. Is that true? If we write to them then the just barrage us with more post, emails and letters. If we ingore them will they just go away?

[Oscar Michelen]

I am rather frustrated as well that no lawyer in the UK has tried to do the same thing Matt and I are doing here:  that is, provide information and a low cost way to address Getty's claims. Here is the language of the relevant section of teh UK Copyright Act:

97 Provisions as to damages in infringement action.

(1)Where in an action for infringement of copyright it is shown that at the time of the infringement the defendant did not know, and had no reason to believe, that copyright subsisted in the work to which the action relates, the plaintiff is not entitled to damages against him, but without prejudice to any other remedy.

This should be all anyone needs to raise to put an end to Getty's claims.

[Matthew Chan]

It has been my limited experience of U.K. culture and people from conservative circles that they are not interested in rocking the boat and certainly not willing to go against the grain or challenge authority in such an unorthodox way.

Here in the U.S., we value and appreciate free speech. Hence, we can publicly criticize any politician with little consequence to ourselves. We can also challenge the system and status quo.  It is part of the independent streak within Americans.

When I was on assignment many years ago, I taught some technical networking courses and the students were eerily silent during my presentations. They rarely engaged in class discussions or challenged the instructors.  Here in the U.S., my students often (but respectfully) challenged me and engaged in class discussions.

I think because of how conservative U.K. professionals seem to be, they seem to not want to be involved in a public way.  It is good for Getty but not so good for people needing legal help.  

MatthewC

[Oscar Michelen]

Good point. To quote Pink Floyd, "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way."

[mellow6]

So are we doomed here in the UK if no one is out there to help us?

[Oscar Michelen]

Not doomed, just not represented. I don't think Getty has been suing in the UK either.

[mellow6]

Hey OM, Have you any updates for us? I'm in UK and received a letter in mid October 2010.  21 days have gone and it's all gone quiet. The entire website is offline. The claim is for 2 images, one of which was removed months before the first letter was received. Do you know if anyone has recently been taken to court in UK?

[Oscar Michelen]

No Mellow, still no news of any cases from the UK.  I doubt they will sue over 2 images

[UKLawyer]

Hi Oscar,

I have had a number of UK cases with Getty.  

It is not such an impossible situation as some people seem to think and Getty can be beaten.  It is a matter of straightforward tactics - straightforward that is if you are a copyright lawyer sufficiently familiar also with the English court rules.      

Frankly I find Getty Images' approach to their business is not one that gives business generally a good press.

Maybe I should take a leaf out of your book and sell the UK letter that can be sent to Getty Images?  

The problem for most small businesses here is that the stakes are so low for lawyers to spend time on this and legal fees so high.  We are also highly regulated and proscribed by rules which mean taking on a new client costs a good deal of time and hence money in administration.

I have not read all the threads on your forum but probably somewhere someone has mentioned the only UK case that reached the English High Court door and settled [the J D Cole case - Claim No HC09C00794].  Not one of mine I am happy to say [better a 100 miles out of court than in].

We do not have contingency fees and the loser pays the winner's costs.  The only thing we do have are conditional fee agreements which can be backed by insurance against losing and are sometimes described as no-win no-fee - but that is not true in all cases - eg if the loser cannot or does not pay the conditional fee agreement winner.

Conditional fees cannot exceed 100% of the basic normal legal fee and the Court can disallow excessive conditional fees - so in personal injury work conditional fees might be around the 15% mark.

But there is a way of dealing with this that the savvy non-lawyer might be able to use to handle the problem themselves, given the right information.  Always a problem of course because some people are savvy and some people only think they are.

If you might be kind enough to point me to one or two threads on the UK issues I might if I get time take a closer look.

The situation in the UK is not the same as in the US but I would be interested to know how you approach this.  I have done a deal of work with US attorneys over the years in numerous states.